Cool Choirs, Clappy Choruses, Cringy Coffee: Religion Chat Thread No 5

(1000 Posts)
madhairday Sun 09-Sep-12 16:16:19

I thought seeing as our other thread has gone somewhere into the oblivion that is old MN pages, I would start us up again anew for a new term. This is a place for those who are Christians (and anyone who's not, we're not an exclusive little club) grin to chat about life, theology, church, any other stuff and of course Graham Kendrick, as nickel would not forgive me if I forgot to mention him grin

So all welcome, old and new, it would be fun to chat and chew over anything that comes to mind. Lurkers say hello!

Anyone got a nice juicy topic to get the ball rolling then? Or if not come say hi anyway and tell us how you are doing. smile

niminypiminy Wed 12-Sep-12 22:20:04

Don't know why dactyl got in there confused! Hello Sharksandfishes!

madhairday Thu 13-Sep-12 09:38:26

arf at the random envy and dactyl, what's next? grin

Welcome Sharksandfishes, actually I am a bit envy of you, both for Sydney and Hillsong type church, I have a DVD of one of Hillsong worship conferences and I would love to go there one day smile

The incense one I do find difficult, because I know it's not just me who struggles, many of my friends with my same lung disease say they also avoid 'incensey' churches because they cannot cope with them, and so I think at present the issue isn't highlighted much because people just keep away/go to other churches/don't go at all (in one case I know). BUt when I hear of descriptions like SES's it makes me sad I cannot join into this, but it's just one more thing this bloody disease takes away. I don't know. I wouldn't want to ban incense because I know it aids worship for many, and yet I also know it hinders it for many. What to do? I've had the same issue with lilies in church btw - I went to a service once where they were prolific and had to leave that one too, my lungs literally seized and it was scary.

gingercurl Thu 13-Sep-12 12:16:45

It isn't just people with lung disease that have problems with incense, lilies and other strong smelling stuff. Asthmatics and people with allergies suffer as well and, for some, sitting further away helps very little. I understand that some people like incense and that it might help them in their worship but, having a sister who's had to be taken to hospital with asthma attacks caused by perfume and/or oil burners and similar, I think churches should avoid it as a rule.

madhairday Thu 13-Sep-12 12:19:38

I'm kind of with you ginger....but still torn because of how people find it so helpful. Although, you could say that about anything, and disability access means that people may have to go without something for the sake of access for others, so you may well be right. I do look back on that healing service and try to smile about it, but at the time I was actually very angry and felt very excluded by it, when I went for the very reason the service was for...hmmm.

niminypiminy Thu 13-Sep-12 17:11:36

The issue of access is a complicated one, isn't it?

My sons are both acutely sensitive to loud noise, and can't bear loud music -- DS1 who as AS finds it painful. I've talked to the Vicar and asked him to turn the music down, but he simply won't. That's an access problem too. We could never go to a big worship event with a band. But on the other hand, some people love to be overwhelmed by amplified sound and it helps them worship.

Perhaps these issues could be seen as a good (if unintended) justification for different worship styles.

Tuo Thu 13-Sep-12 23:47:32

I read your posts earlier today at work MHD and gingercurl, but didn't have time to reply. Have been thinking about it since and I agree totally that it's an access issue. In the case of the healing service you attended, I think it was inappropriate, since it was entirely likely that someone there would have a lung disease, asthma or something else that could be exacerbated by the incense. I don't know what to think about churches like mine where it's used routinely in services (for the main Sunday services, at least... don't think it's used at the 8 a.m., and I went once to a midweek lunchtime Eucharist that was smoke-free). As you say, it would be a shame to eliminate it entirely, and yet, it's clearly a problem for some people. As with so many things, knowledge is the key, isn't it? So I reckon we should have a 'health warning' wink 'Warning: This service may contain incense', just so people know. (DD1 is allergic to cats, and she went off to a sleepover last weekend, and it was only when we got there that we discovered that they had cats. Had we known I'd have dosed her with Piriton before she went, but I hadn't thought to ask and they hadn't mentioned it... Now, I do know that you can't just get round the problem with Piriton, MHD, but I was just thinking that the key thing is to know in advance what you're getting into.)

Actually, at a bit of a tangent, I am finding it interesting what is considered 'essential' versus 'optional'. As I said, I grew up attending a low, but quite traditional church, and we always had a crucifer, but never acolytes and definitely no incense. Now, at the more informal (Common Worship) family service, we have acolytes, thurifer and boat-bearer but no crucifer, and the more formal (BCP) service has all of the above plus a crucifer. I'm intrigued by the implied hierarcy of these elements.

Niminy... yes... at least the CofE does cater for all tastes!

Any one have any good ideas to do prayers/intercessions. I'm leading the service on Sunday, we're doing Holy Cross (which is today) but as it is our Parish church name, we're having a family service this Sunday with our music group.
Instead of someone leading the prayers, I would like the whole congregation to participate... Was thinking something like sticking post-it notes on the cross, but if any one has a better idea, please do tell me wink

niminypiminy Fri 14-Sep-12 10:35:00

I know this sounds tacky, but one thing I have used is to cut out hearts and tear shapes and hand them out. People can write their prayers on them if they like, or simply hold the heart and or tear and say their prayer silently. People then came and stuck them on the window (in our case) but it would work very well to stick them on the cross. So it's a variation on the post-its really.

niminypiminy Fri 14-Sep-12 13:30:19

or you could have a big bowl of sand at the foot of the cross, and people could come and light a candle and put it in the bowl of sand (would probably only work if there weren't very many people there)

nickelcognito Fri 14-Sep-12 13:53:41

oooooh!
i only just heard of this one - I love the title!

thank you for tweeting me grin

nickelcognito Fri 14-Sep-12 13:53:57

and welcome to newbies.

i'll now read the thread....

MaryBS Fri 14-Sep-12 14:03:37

Bluetinkerbell, I've got a meditation/poem written by a friend of my brother, called "rocks and stones and pebbles", and what i've done is provide rocks and stones and pebbles, and what you do is take one or several, large or small, signifying something you want to give up to God. So it might be a large rock, or a handful of pebbles. I can PM you the poem? Not sure its really mine to share...

MaryBS Fri 14-Sep-12 14:03:59

and you leave your rocks or stones or pebbles at the foot of the cross

nickelcognito Fri 14-Sep-12 14:09:04

we're back at choir after the hols.

might have a few problems with JC1 this year - he hasn't been to practice yet, (okay only 1 so far), and his mum tells me that he might not be coming to practice until May! because he has been given a part in a play and they rehearse on bogging friday evening! he doesn't know this yet because it hasn't started.

also, there might be a chance that he's got a form of dyslexia, so we're waiting for a referral.

did pronunciation with JC2 on friday. as a typical swale estuary kid, he can't do ththththththth, and it's quite hard teaching 10yo how to speak differently!

nickelcognito Fri 14-Sep-12 14:17:14

oh ballroom i'm sorry you feel that about being involved in services.
it is harder, granted, but DD has been in the choir for all her 9 months.

she's always decided she needs a feed just before communion, which is a pest, but she's recently (in the past month) been fobb-offable with water until the end (or as close as poss!)

I've found if I get up a little bit earlier and feed her before we leave, she lasts longer.
also, a couple of the ladies in the congregation have started taking her off me during communion, and she doesn't feel hungry when she's being entertained by someone who hasn't got milk!

the changing is rather hit-and-miss, but we are normally okay ignoring it until she's uncomfortable. smile

it does get easier

nickelcognito Fri 14-Sep-12 14:17:32

Mary ! shock

sermon

nickelcognito Fri 14-Sep-12 14:18:37

that stones thing, we did it once on Good Friday - we had abig wooden cross, andthe vicar put down a massive pile of stones. and you had to put stones on the cross. it was very moving.

nickelcognito Fri 14-Sep-12 14:26:13

ooh, yes, Gruffalo day was fabulously fabulous!
grin

welcome to newbies now I've read their posts grin

incense - i love love love it, but I wouldn't dream of hoping to insist on it because I know so many people have chest problems and breathing difficulties etc that would make church a very unwelcoming place.
I think they should have incense-flavoured wax/furniture polish, so that churches can smell of incense without the danger factor! grin

nickelcognito Fri 14-Sep-12 14:27:06

maybe a video of incense burning?

MaryBS Fri 14-Sep-12 15:04:20

Its nearly there nickel blush

Neales Yard do some amazing frankincense face cream, that sort of smells like incense.

SESthebrave Fri 14-Sep-12 15:45:27

Having a quick lurk whilst feeding DD but wanted to say hello Nickel <waves>
Love the idea of incense furniture polish and incense cream smile

Bluebell - like all the prayer suggestions and we've used stones/pebbles before but I also really like the heart/tear shape idea.

mary please do pm the poem! very interested!

MaryBS Fri 14-Sep-12 21:13:21

OK Bluetinkerbell, sent it smile

lovely thanks smile
might not use it this Sunday, but will definetely keep it for another occasion

madhairday Sat 15-Sep-12 09:37:02

Hello nickel, glad you found it! smile

Incense polish - now there's a thought, good video idea too, though not quite the same I'll admit...

Blue, lots of good ideas there, we have done similar with the post its/hearts etc, we also did folded up paper at the foot of the cross.

Got to go and make dd's birthday cake, she is 12 tomorrow, no way!!

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