Today I'm trying to break my dogs routine in hope to calm him down.

[Endler32]

We are going cold turkey.

Up until now my dog has cried all day to get what he wants, I have always given in.

He cries every time I go near the front door as he wants to be walked. If I don't take him he continues to cry. It's the same with breakfast and dinner, he cries until he gets fed. This has resulted in him having 2 long walks every day ( he cries, I eventually give in and walk him, we come home, he sleeps for a hour, cries and I take him out to shut him up ).

I know what I have been doing is wrong and I must not let him dictate when he's going to get walked or if he's going to get a walk. It's made life hard, today I am not feeling great, the weather is not nice and I really could do with staying in, of course he has other plans and from the moment I put my shoes on to do the school run he started crying. He has sat by my feet howling and crying, I removed him for a short time to the garden ( to stop me giving in ), when he was quite I let him back in, I have done this twice and he is now asleep.

I feel mean because to follow this through and he won't get walked today unless I can get him to be quite for more than a few minutes, if I stand up now he will get up and cry again, he is a very intelligent dog and I know once we crack it the crying will stop and life will become easier. One day without a walk will not kill him will it? We can do training in the house to tire him out a little.

Am I doing the right thing?

I have done a bit of research and most of what I read implies that I must not give in to the crying or things will just get worse as he will think he just needs to cry to get his own way.

I have posted about my dog a few times under a different name ( had to change my name so please don't out me ).

My dog is a lab x collie.

[Endler32]

I have successfully taught him 'calm' thanks to advice on here but even though he stays still and looks calm he still cries whilst doing this. I have also taught him 'bed' and he will go and lie down instead of pacing around ( but again the crying continues whilst he's led down ). I feel we are getting somewhere but the main problem ' the dying to get what he wants' now needs to be tacked.

[Hexiegone]

That sounds hellish, how old is he? How long have you had him?

[Endler32]

He's 2 and we have had him since he was 14 weeks, he was a whinny puppy but I havn't helped by giving into him.

It has been hell, he starts crying from 6am for his breakfast though this is getting better as I make him calm down before feeding but obviously I can always wait for him to stop crying to feed him as he would just cry all day so basically he gets his own way. As soon as he's eaten the crying starts to be walked. We do have a large garden which he has access too in the morning. As soon as I get ready for the school run he gets worse, when I get home he goes crazy ( this is often when I give in and take him on his first walk ), then after a hour of being home he starts crying again , we have almost stopped the crying at his dinner time after me ignoring and changing his dinner time each day.

I am going to crack this if it kills me, today will be hell but he usually picks up on things quite quickly so tomorrow will hopefully be less stressful. I do feel mean but I feel it's the only thing I havn't tried and it does make sense to do it as he is getting his own way by crying.

[daisydotandgertie]

God - of course missing a walk won't kill him. He'll be fine.

I have no clue how you haven't been driven to distraction by such a demanding dog - it must be awful.

Ignore, ignore, ignore. Don't acknowledge the whining at all, not by huffing, tutting, bellowing or any other way. Put in ear plugs if you have to.

The minute he is quiet, maybe call him to you for a fuss. Walk away if he whines and be sure not to make eye contact.

Continue turning everything on its head as you have been - I'd try breakfast before he starts to wail and would get it ready the night before so you can get up, go straight in and serve theoretically avoiding the whining and breaking the habit.

And if it helps, he's not crying! He's whining like a spoilt child. Ignoring him will do him no harm at all and learning that you don't need managing by him will reduce his stress levels to boot. Good luck

[Endler32]

Thank you Daisy, you have made me feel much better. I was worried people would call me cruel for not walking him, I have been accused on here of not walking him enough in the past and told he was bored which is why he is crying. He does get a lot of attention and exercise, the more I give him the worse he gets so it obvious he is just crying to get his own way. If I don't sort this out now I will go crazy ( and dh will probably leave as he has had enough of this too ), the dog controls everything and today it stops.

I had to go to the loo so he is now crying again but led on his bed looking at me, I am ignoring , I am hoping it will only take a day or 2 to crack it.

[MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig]

Stop calling it crying! He is not crying, he is not sad, he is whining as Daisy rightly said.

The trouble is this is a learned behaviour that you have taught him, although inadvertantly. He whines, he gets rewarded. He has learnt that he calls the shots so he will instigate things rather than wait for a signal from you. Dogs associate action with reward in seconds. Any attention will be his reward so yes completely ignore him. He won't melt and he can hardly get any more annoying by the sound of it.

Did you go training with him? Have you had any help?

[Endler32]

Yes, whining not crying.

We have only done training at home as there was no space at our local group. I have had advice from the person I got him from and the advice was to ignore. Ignoring has been very hard, I know I have made things worse. I have had so much mixed advice, people telling me to exercise him more ( which has made him worse ), people telling me he is hungry and people telling me he needs more mental stimulation. I have done some clicker training with him but the more I do the worse his behaviour gets, as soon as he see's the clicker or realises I have treats he goes hyper and jumps around, he does eventually calm down and we do some training. Training is much easier outside, I have been teaching him to retrieve, drop and sit next to his ball ready for me to throw, we have done this without using treats and he picked it up quickly.

Other than the whining and pulling on the lead everything else is improving, his recall is good off lead, he plays happily with other dogs but pulls me over on the lead when he sees anyone ( we are working on this by making him stand still until he is calm ).

[daisydotandgertie]

Oh my. He sounds so demanding.

How much attention and exercise does he actually get?

And what do you feed him and how much?

To me, he sounds massively over stimulated and pretty stressy. A lot of dogs react badly to too much exercise - the more they get, the more they want and the faster they learn to badger until they get it. It is reversible though.

[Endler32]

He has been getting 2 walks a day but have reduced down too one long walk and one play/training session ( in the garden or in the field out the front of our house ). He's fed dry food twice a day, he's on a good quality dog food, we have tried others but he suffers from allergies and colitis and everything else goes straight through him.

His walks consist of on and off lead exercise and chasing his ball, he pulls a bit on the lead but is fine once off lead and running around. Training is mainly retrieving as that's what he does best, and we have been working on the 'calm' command.

He is very 'high energy' and hard work but the more I do with him the more high energy he gets, he can't sit still, expects attention every time I move or look in his direction.

Today's cold turkey has gone well, he has not been walked, I have walked in and out of the room 100 times until I don't get a reaction from him, I have ignored the shinning, fed him when he wasn't expecting it ( early ) and he is now asleep.

[daisydotandgertie]

Well done.

You are doing them very best thing for him - he needs to learn to settle himself down and not be on edge all the bloody time. It won't be doing him any good, let alone you.

How does he react with a brain exercising toy - eg putting all his kibble for one meal in kong wobbly thing say? Does that wind him up or will he concentrate? Concentration is what he needs to get a handle of, I think.

I'd stop ball throwing on walks ASAP too. At the moment, you are hoping to break the link with you providing all stimulation and fun and by ball throwing on a walk, he will focus on you entirely and not learn to entertain himself by mooching about. Leave the ball at home and just walk. Ball throwing won't be helping at the moment - neither will retrieving. It is highly exhilarating for them.

Change your training focus to sit and sit and wait, heel off lead etc. Avoid adrenaline situations for now and work on calm concentration instead. He'll be exhausted by it!

[Endler32]

The kong wobbler sends him crazy, he can empty it quite quickly ( I think the kindles too small for the hole ), we have a few of the food puzzle toys which he likes but again he is very speedy with them. He's not too fussed about sniffing food out when I hide it ( gives up too quickly ). He seems really settled tonight despite not having a walk. I have reduced the ball games down, he just plays ball for a part of our walk, tbh it makes it easier for me as when I have the ball he will do what I tell him even if there are other dogs around, without the ball he tends to run off ( though will return when I shout for him ).

I will see how he gets on tomorrow, if he stops wining I will take him on a relaxed walk.

[daisydotandgertie]

I really think that for the time being you must lose the ball. A walk at an unexpected time tomorrow is a good idea, but do it without the ball. He needs to learn a new pace of life - one where he's not constantly looking to you for entertainment or interaction. He needs to learn that if you call him over, he lots of love and maybe later on a game but if he demands it, nothing happens.

One thing I badger my puppy owners about is teaching their puppy to self settle. To teach them that playing on their own is a good thing sometimes. It's absolutely not about neglect, but about equipping the dog to be more self assured in the house. I fear your dog sounds a bit neurotic - hyper vigilant and hyper stimulated which can't be very nice for anyone.

If you ask your dog to sit and wait, how far could you walk away from him before he moved? And does he walk nicely to heel off lead?

[Endler32]

The 'sit and wait' we are working on, it's not great, I can only get a couple metres at the moment and he struggles with sitting still ( very wriggly ), maybe we can work on this more when we are out instead if playing ball?

This morning he didn't wake me up whining for breakfast, dh fed him without a fuss , usually when dh does it there's a lot of jumping around, whining and dh shouting , this morning was much more chilled. I have been keeping on at dh that it's important we both use the same rules and training techniques or we won't get anywhere.

This morning I need to do the school run, pop back home and then go shopping, this will send him crazy as he will think I'm coming back to walk him, I shall ignore him when I pop back in, if he's quiet later he will get a walk without the ball.

[Endler32]

Day 2 and so far no walk , had car problems this morning so got home later than planed, he is now whining ( quietly but still whining ), unless he can settle he won't be going anywhere. Feel really mean.

[Endler32]

Just took him out in the field and he went crazy, running around me in circles, jumping up at me ( as he knew I had treats ), would come back when I called him, would sit and then snatch treats out my hand , tried to calm him down but was not successful and when he saw the post man he almost bolted, he only got a few metres then remembered I had treats and came back. Feeling really annoyed, I can't get him to move at a slow pace at all, he has to run and bounce .

[daisydotandgertie]

OK - take away the treats for a while too. Don't take them out with you.

Running about on a walk like a fool isn't the end of the world, and he was able to listen to you enough - despite his obsession with getting some sort of stimulation from you - and came back when you called and sat too. That's really good.

One of the reasons that's good is that it shows he is able to retain some sense in his head even though he is fit to burst with needing entertainment from you. He is absolutely over stimulated, over alert and pretty highly strung.

He needs to learn that gentle praise from you is what he's after, so avoid shouting and use a calm low voice and bend and tickle his chest as praise for sitting or coming back. Try and avoid touching his head. Do you use a whistle for recall?

It will work, if you keep going. I expect some of his leaping was trying to find the ball you usually have - it's going to take a while to learn the new regime, and I think this was his first new regime walk, wasn't it?

Where did you get him from, out of interest - was he well socialised by whoever bred him?

[moosemama]

I think you've done really well up until now with the advice given on here and trusting your own instinct. I remember us talking way back and asking if you could try ignoring him, but at that point you felt it wasn't the right path as he was just too hyper and extreme. Since then you've done loads, reducing his walks so that he's not such an adrenaline junkie always needing/wanting more exercise, reduced the amount of ball throwing - again to reduce the adrenaline junkie tendencies and introduced calm and bed.

You've put in such a lot of hard work with him and I agree with both you and daisy that he now needs to learn that he can't demand attention by annoying you to death with constant whining and the only way you're going to crack that is by not giving into it. It's going to be hard on both of you, but will pay dividends in the end.

As you carry on with your new way of interacting with him he should start to calm down and then all your walk on 'calm' and 'bed' etc will really start to pay off too.

If his recall is good I'd agree with daisy again and say ditch the treats, rewarding him with your attention instead when he does come back. It's good to get him used to the fact that rewards don't always equal his ball or food.

Missing the odd walk won't kill him, so don't be beating yourself up about that either.

[willowisp]

This sounds a bit odd - you've had him since he was 14 weeks & now at 2 you're asking advice ? I presume he's been like this since 14 weeks ?

He's a high energy, intelligent dog (what made you choose that breed ?) so he does need a lot of stimulation & I think he must be bored out of his brains.

Why do you feed him first thing in the morning ? What food do you give him ?

I would get up & get him out for a walk BEFORE he even has chance to whine. Can you run with him ?
Feed him when he gets back - basically change his routine.

Can you find out about taking him to agility class's or the fly class ? Surely as a collie cross he's needs to be herding or working etc ?

I think personally not walking him is a bad idea.

[willowisp]

Sorry - posted incorrectly - I see you are trying to change the routine !

[Endler32]

Thank you both of you, I will ditch the treats, he does return when I call him without out using treats, I think the treats just get him extra excited. After our little trip out he fell asleep and is still asleep so even though he didn't get a long walk or run he has settled ( which proves he does not need to chase a ball for half an hour to tire him out ). I'm going to stick with it, hopefully it will pay off sometime soon.

[moosemama]

Sounds very positive Endler32.

Actually I've just had a thought - trying to use his brain to work out why his routine has changed and what you expect of him in each situation now will be tiring, so that's a plus too.

Here's hoping he gets the idea really quickly.

[daisydotandgertie]

Bloody hell, don't give up! You owe it to your dog and to yourself to get this sorted out. Life must be miserable for both of you.

They absolutely don't need to chase a ball or walk for hours to wear them out. You're unlikely to ever wear a dog like yours out physically tbh, they have been bred to work all day long without turning a hair. The trouble with too much walking and too much ball throwing is that the dog will just want more and more and more. Some of the most well trained, fit and happy dogs (labs) I know get a half hour toddle about every day and then entertain themselves the rest of the time.

Mine (labs) only get a ball on a walk as a very, very special treat. Maybe once every 6 months. They get about 1.5ish hours a day of just walking split over two walks and I have never used treats as a regular training thing. They each have about 15 mins average a day of training too.

I seem to be a lone voice on here about exercise, with posters advocating ever increasing amounts to fix pretty much any problem. It's not the answer or a cure all. Yes, dogs need a walk and (apart from your re-schooling) it should be daily BUT walks are an adrenaline buzz, dogs will keep on going and going, long beyond our average endurance level and their behaviour will suffer as a consequence. Like an over tired toddler, a post adrenaline buzz, overtired dog can be horrid.

Something which might be useful to you is something I've observed as a breeder. The mother of puppies always disengages with them by breaking eye contact and walking off - my other adult dogs do the same once the puppies are in general circulation. Everytime they get too annoying, or hurt her or something, she puts her head down/turns away and will not re-engage until she wants to. I do much the same and have a flotilla of very chilled, well trained working dogs as a consequence.

[Endler32]

Thank you Daisy, I do think all the exercise he has been getting gas just made him extra fit meaning he's even more full of energy. So many people told me I had to walk him for hours a day and give him lots of exercise . Tbh, he has been ok without his walk, it hasn't made him any worse than when he is walked.

We shall see how tomorrow goes.

[Endler32]

Just walked him, took ages to get up the road ( lots of turning around and walking back ), got to the field and I kept him on his lead which was around my waist, he was a bit shocked not to be going for a run or play ball but once we started walking around the field he walked nicely, all was going well until we were walking along the road towards home and someone came the other way with a black lab, he went crazy, whining, pulling me over to get to the dog. I crossed the road and tried to stand still, took ages to calm him and then 2 young girls walked past and off he went again and managed to hurt my hand whilst I was trying to pull him back , we used to be able to walk past people with just a tiny amount of whining and head turning, what went wrong? I really do hate walking him at the moment, mainly because I end up injured and embarrassed by his behaviour.

[daisydotandgertie]

What made you decide to lead walk him today?

Could you drive to the field for the next little while to avoid the pulling? Don't set life up for a battle at the moment, there's enough going on for now.

He is confused at the moment, because so much in his little world has changed. Be kind, calm and consistent and he will learn the new way.

I think he needs a good hours off lead walk tomorrow, he needs to run off some frustration. Take him when he's not expecting it though!

Whereabouts are you? Could you also book him into some training classes so you can get a bit of moral support?