Horrible dog-fight today... I am traumatised!

[Ellbell]

Aaargh! Just need to offload really after our two dogs had the most hideous fight this morning. Have been really shaky all day.

There's a long background to this, which I will summarise. Had two dogs, both rescue dogs, but one died (at the age of 17) in November 2004. The remaining dog had never been on her own, and didn't cope with it at all well. Neighbour complained about her howling when we were out and we realised we'd need to get another dog to keep her company (have had her for over 10 years, so not keeping her wasn't an option). Eventually last September got another rescue dog - a lovely 5-y-o bitch, Staffie-cross - who seemed perfect (lovely with kids, very trainable, fun, loving etc.). All has been well, except that just recently we've had a few fighting incidents. Always the same... going out for a walk, if the old dog gets over excited and lets out a little yip the new one goes for her. But it has only happened about 4 or 5 times, and they've always been fine once they were back indoors and had calmed down again. Well, this morning it happened again, so I left the old dog 'home alone' while I walked the new dog for 10 mins to calm her down. Came back to the house expecting everything to be fine... and the new dog just laid into the old one in the most incredible way. She had picked her up by the throat and was banging her against the kitchen floor. I really thought she was going to kill her in front of me (thank God the kids were already at school). I eventually managed to get her off, but it took all my strength. I had to literally garrotte her with her collar, twisting it as hard as I could till she couldn't breathe to make her let go. I separated the dogs and just stood there shaking. Eventually (after a slightly hysterical phone call to dh, who's abroad this week) I phoned our local kennels (who are nice, and have had the dogs before for us) and asked if they could take the new dog for a few days. I then took the old dog to the vets and they discovered two nasty puncture wounds and a lot of bruising. Poor thing is as traumatised as I am... she was just terrified. I am going to have to phone the rescue place we got the new dog from and ask them to take her back, as obviously I can't risk this happening again. But I feel awful doing that to her... she's a lovely dog really, despite what happened. And I am sure they will think it's something I've done to her, or that I'm not a good owner or something. But I can't have her back. My old dog is about 12 or 13 and I just can't take the risk. And what if one of the kids had tried to intervene? (I got bitten on the hand trying to separate them.) I still feel bad though. And, of course, now I'm back to square one with the lone dog who will doubtless howl when left, to the annoyance of my neighbour. But once-bitten twice-shy... I am not confident enough to think of getting another new dog to keep her company. Aaargh!

Sorry... not really asking for advice or anything. Just wanted to offload. I have stress coming out of my ears!

[WigWamBam]

Sounds awful. I think you're doing the right thing in asking the shelter to take the new dog back; if she is aggressive with the other dog she may well be aggressive with your children too as she tries to move her way up the pecking order.

With regard to your older dog being lonely and howling, have you tried leaving the TV or the rasio on for her? It was the only thing that stopped my mum's neurotic dog from howling when she was on her own.

[purplemonkeydishwasher]

Ellbell, that's horrible! No wonder you're traumatised.
Sounds like you did the best you could for that dog. But at 5-y-o she may have had something happen to her early on in her life that has affected her behaviour with other dogs.

[Angeliz]

Ellbell, what about a Puppy? It would be harder work but less likely to be unpredictable.

[Ellbell]

Thanks for the replies, ladies. Just needed to let it all out as was trying to be desperately matter-of-fact about it for the kids (who are 4 and 5) who obviously wanted to know where the new dog has gone.

Couldn't get a puppy Angeliz as I am a WOHM. It's OK with an adult dog, as dh does shifts, so they aren't left for TOO long, but wouldn't be acceptable for a puppy. Have tried the radio WWB, but doesn't work. At present dd1 has donated a huge (and, I must say, slightly manky) dog-sized stuffed dog that some mad relatives gave her and the old dog is currently cuddled up to it on her bed! I will feel slightly mad if I have to live with a life-sized stuffed toy on the dog bed, but can live with it if it solves the problem. Also, a friend mentioned that you can get plug-in pet pheromones (like air-fresheners, only only pets can smell them) which are supposed to be good for stressed pets. Again, sounds a bit mad, but I'm ready to try anything.... Am off to Google for them now!

[ChicPea]

I think staffies have a reputation for being anti social towards other dogs and can get possessive with their owners. They terrify me in fact as I think they are unpredictable and very strong.
Hope you are feeling better about it.

[galaxy]

Exactly the reasons why I'm pissed off that dd's nursery has a dog wandering round the classroom and why I turned down a childminder (who has just registered) coz she had a staffie - she was really off with me

[cupcakes]

I'm sure when you return the dog the shelter will realise that he must have had bad experiences in the five years before you had him - you are obviously a loving dog owner.

[Ellbell]

Thanks all. Have just had a bad half hour of crying. Have been quite 'together' all day, but spoke to dh on the phone and just lost it.

The new dog obviously had some staffie in her, but also some lab. Not a typical staff at all, really. But she won't be getting a second chance, I'm afraid.

[magnolia1]

Sounds awful Ellbell

I must comment though on the fact that it probably has EVERYTHING to do with what has happened in the past and NOTHING to do with being a Staffie X.
Sadly rescue dogs all come with some unpredictability because we can't possibly know everything that has happened to them.

I do hope you find a solution to your older dogs problems with being alone :-) xxx

[nulnulcat]

ellbell the pheremone things are really good for stressed pets (well they work for cats) one of mine got seriously stressed when i had dd as she cried all the time dd not the cat and it was more like screamed all the time (reflux) any way she stopped eating and pulled all her fur out and wouldnt come out of the airing cupboard was a walking skeleton vet prescribed one of these things and within a couple of weeks was back to her normal self still use it and even with a toddler constantly cuddling her pulling her around she doesnt even bother so it must do something. my cat has also been given a hormonal tablet as a short term relief it begins with a o cant remember name im afraid not sure if you can get it for dogs but worth asking about as it was really good hope this helps a bit

[Ellbell]

Thanks for that nulnulcat. I will definitely give it a try.

I don't think that the new dog's breed(s) had anything to do with what happened either. We (thought we) knew her history - she was a divorce victim and had apparently been very much loved. But I am wondering if there had been some aggressive behaviour there in the past too, which the old owners didn't mention when they took her in to the rescue place. In a way it doesn't matter what caused it... sadly (and I really am sad about giving her up, despite everything) she will have to go back. Dh is going to take her in tomorrow .

[Ellbell]

By the way, would have no problem about using a childminder with a dog. Have not been put off dogs by this!