What do you make of this one?

[lisalisa]

Message withdrawn

[slim22]

very very weird.

What is X's problem? blind? stupid? does Y beat him up?
No seriously, that's appalling! How could he let things fester (literally) for so long?

[nancy75]

lets put it this way, if my mum was your friend and i was x or y, my mum would come round, take the kids and not give them back until i had sorted myself out!
if i am reading this correctly the children are her grandchildren? she totally has the right to say something about them not being fed/kept clean.

[slim22]

6 children for the love of God!
That's patent neglect.

[cocolepew]

Surely Y has to have an 'illness or condition'? Once you are taugh how to do something simple a few times, you pick it up, Z obviously did. It sounds very strange.

[snice]

Should she not speak to social services?-everyone in this family seems to need help and I don't think its fair on the eldest child to have all the responsibility pushed onto her.

[PinkTulips]

tbh, if i were your friend i'd tell Y to either let me help or I'd ring social services.

that's just me though, tact isn't my strong point.

very weird and distressing situation and i'd have serious doubt about Y's mental health that no only does she live like this but she refuses to aknowledge there's a problem and refuses help when offered.

madness

[juuule]

Very odd situation. From what you have said there seems to be something definitely not quite right with Y. X doesn't seem to be quite with it, either, or why wouldn't he have taken control of the situation sometime during the last 16years. Why hasn't his mother had a word with him. I can understand his mother's concern for her grandchildren but can't understand why she's let it go on for this long.
At 16 I would think that Z could go around to grandmas whenever she chose to do so.

[CarGirl]

if they smell and don't eat properly then I would ring social services that is why they exist!

[slim22]

Agree Y (and X for being blind to it) must have some pb. Might just be severely depressed thus unable to cope.

But tbh the husband is totally irresponsible....6 kids? Why can't your friend talk to her son? Do you think she can't face the fact that he might largely be responsible too?

[islingtonponce]

this sort of chronic long term neglect is extremely damaging to children. it is abuse. their needs are not being met. both parents need a kick up the bum (what is X's excuse ffs??). i would tell them straight it's not good enough. when they continue to reject help i would phone ss. i would also tell 16 yo she is welcome in my home as and when she wants to visit.

[tearinghairout]

It does sound as if Y has some sort of mental illness, & prob X is turning a blind eye rather than facing up to it. Your friend needs to find a way of gently talking to him, perhaps using 'Isn't Z a lovely girl?' as an introduction. Must not, of course, say anything that could be construed as criticizing Y. What a difficult one.

[modernart]

Or, it could be that yr 60yo friend is a bit of a fantasist? Nothing is good enough for her son and she's maybe criticising when it is just a case of different standards? If she has never liked Y, she may get a kick from dissing her to you?

[madamez]

I'm with modernart here_ do you actually know this family? Have you ever seen these children? You do say that you don't actually know Granny that well so it is more than possible that she's a vindictive old witch trying to split up a marriage she didn't approve of. Even if what she says is partly true, then she's at fault for letting it go on for 16 years without intervening a bit more radically than she's done so far.

Frankly she sounds like a Daily Mail leader writer inventing stuff.

[yurt1]

I'm with modernart.

And if Y really couldn't cope why hasn't your friend 'worked' on X? Surely he's capable of using a machine?

[PrincessPeaHead]

I also think it is absolutely NOT in Zs best interest to be pushed into the role of "parent" to her two parents and five siblings. Teaching her life skills is one thing, expecting her to run the household is quite another.

How young is the youngest?

Surely Y must have learning difficulties from your description? How can your friend have watched this for 16 years without seeking outside help? Are there religious or cultural reasons why they would not seek such help?

[TheFallenMadonna]

The father sees the daughter learning to use a washing machine and to boil an egg as the salvation of the family?

If the family are truly in this situation then he has been equally neglectful.

The "she was concerned as to her background and ability to be a proper wife" comment made me think of my MIL, who is convinced that I am not really a proper wife to my DH.

I am not sympathetic to my MIL and her ilk.

[lisalisa]

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[windygalestoday]

i think that if the situation was that bad ss would already be involved -poor diet leads to illhealth and thus doctor and healthvisitor visits- you cant starve 6 children with no adveres effects babies simply dont tolerate hunger......the house will be messy with 6 children maybe the mum is a bit 'earthy' and wants the children to be free to explore without dirtying up best clothes - seting family of 8 to eat hot meals would be diastrous everyday maybe they 'eat and go' it does seem that your friend has confided an awful lot in you ,perhaps too much?if it were that bad and she was that caring a grandparent shed have had words with her son telling him to sort it as i know i would and then surely shed inform ss too?
if the situation is as she tells then she too is neglecting those children by not informing the social services herself.

[juuule]

Why can't x run the household or at least do much more than he is doing? Does a wash once a month Why not more often than that? Something doesn't add up here.

[cory]

I was going to ask the same as Juule. And agree with FallenMadonna.

Children in families where both parents work fulltime don't usually end up unfed and unwashed, you know. And most single parents manage to run a washing machine. So there seems to be something distinctly odd about this lady's son as well as the DIL. Why on earth is he letting his children get into a state where they may need the help of SS? And why should a 16 year-old do the work of a grown man? (though naturally, I approve of all children being taught to cook)

My husband works fulltime but still cooks dinner several times a week, does most of the washing-up and at least half the laundry. That still gives him time to knit dc's jumpers in the evenings . And we clean and tidy the house together at weekends. If your friend's son did only a small part of what he does, there is no way those children would get into the state described. Even if he works long hours, he could cook a stew for the freezer/fridge.

It seems clear that your friend is not capable of giving the full picture of what goes on in this family- she has edited her son's responsibilities out of it.

[kingprawntikka]

Why can't X do an internet shop once a week and get the food delivered so they don't run out of basics?

[lisalisa]

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[islingtonponce]

it would seem that none of the professionals in contact with the 6 dcs over a number of years have shared granny's concerns though wouldnt it? hvs / gps / variety of teachers etc. if there was serious neglect they would have duty to pass concerns to ss.... all sounds a bit odd the more i read.