I really need some help with my three year old :( - bedtimes

[CapnMurica]

I cannot cope.

He gets put to bed and he messes around for hours. Running around, climbing in the bathroom and squeezing all the toothpaste out, emptying the shower gel....he just will not go to sleep. He doesn't wake once he's asleep but it takes hours and I just don't know what to do. It seriously makes me cry I'm so upset.

It doesn't matter whether me or my husband put him to bed, what time, whether we read a story or not, whether he's had a nap in the day or not. He still spends hours jumping around and (it feels like) deliberately trying to wind us up.

We've tried the supernanny rapid return - doesn't work.
Tried putting him in a room on his own - doesn't work.
Staying in, or just outside the room so he knows we're there - doesn't work, he just keeps peeping round the door making a game of it.

Tonight I screamed at him. Proper screamed. I hate myself for it. But I am at the end of my tether with it. It's making me really dislike my little boy . And really dislike myself because I have six year old twins as well - I could handle them but one three year old has become my nemesis?!

I've left him to it now because I just can't be up there at the moment with him, I'm crying my eyes out. He's sneaked downstairs and he's in the kitchen.

Can anyone offer any ideas or help? Please?

[Fairylea]

Extra tall stair gate for a start. With a padlock if necessary.

Make things as boring as possible. Don't even talk to him, just keep putting him back to bed. I know it's awful. If he keeps peeping round the door or faffing about as difficult as it is I'd just leave him to it. If you have the stair gate and you know he's safe I'd just do your best to ignore the behaviour as much as you can.

[CapnMurica]

We used to have a stairgate. Problem is, he can get over it and I worry he'll accidentally throw himself over the banister as well. It wasn't a tall one though. The doorway is narrow, I remember we had problems making it fit although I can't remember what we did now.

He also has to share with his brother, although I suppose it won't be so high he won't be able to open it.

I think I'm going to have to do that, and put his brother in our room so they're all split up (because of course, if I put the twins together, then they'll mess around ).

Thanks for the advice. I must be stressed as that hadn't occurred to me!

[OinkBalloon]

How does he cope if bedtime is very delayed? Does he get manic with exhaustion, or does he slow down if he is very tired?

[CapnMurica]

He turns into a ball of fury when tired. Lashes out and smacks, shouts, goes stiff as a board.....we've tried the keeping him up late but honestly, he was up until we went to bed and then cried because it was dark. Was still up early (7ish) and then went to nursery. Had to be carried home because he fell asleep on his feet honestly I didn't want to do it because I knew it would impact his behaviour at nursery.

[OinkBalloon]

Ok, so letting him get tired wont help.

Whenyoureturn him to his room, do you speak to him?

[CapnMurica]

Mostly just grab him and hoik him back into bed. But we will do this on average from 8 till 11 easily without him letting up up. He seems to think it's hilarious.

We haven't tried that approach more than 3 days on the trot though because it's exhausting for us.

[6LittleOnes]

When dd3 was 3 she went through a stage of constantly getting out of bed and messing around. We bought her a CD player and some story cds, and now she stays in bed listening to her stories until she falls asleep.

[nottheOP]

I gave up a few nights ago and ignored ds as much as possible. I bought him into the lounge and his toys were all put away. I said he had to sit still and be quiet. He eventually announced at 9.15 he was off to bed. So, that could work?

I'm still battling. My current techniques are early bedtime, upstairs at 7 if poss. Teeth. 2 books. Good night words and then no more words til morning. I close the door and then sit outside until he comes to the door where I put him back to bed. I also go in and put him back to bed if I hear him pratting around.

See how that goes. He's driving me crackers. It was about an hour tonight.

I need to buy blackout curtains. It's really bright in there which I don't think helps.

[SycamoreMum]

My sister went through this with my nephew and I've had one or two episodes with my one year old. Even though the kids are bouncing off the walls, we'd go around locking up the house, turning off the lights and tv, put them in bed and say goodnight. Just to make the kiddies see that everyone is going to bed now. He might run around but when he sees the house is quiet and dark two things could happen; he'll retreat to bed or he'll raise hell. At which point you put him back to bed continuously and go to your bed (pretending of course).

The silence after they fall asleep is bliss. I head back to the living room with my fags and choccie biscuits

[toomanywheeliebins]

StoryCD? I sympathise because I have had similar but this did actually work with my then 3 yo

[CapnMurica]

I've got a story cd actually, bought it for Xmas and never put it on!

Might try that tomorrow while waiting for the stair gate to be delivered.

Thanks all

[OinkBalloon]

It is thoroughly exhausting. No denying that. But consider it an investment of energy!

We went through similar with our previously compliant 3yo when she moved from cot to bed. The only thing we found worked was to silently and unemotionally return her to her bed. Over and over and over again. Even if it was every 5mins for several hours. Each episode took 1-2w to resolve, with the number of returns staying high for the first 2-3 nights, and then reducing nightly. Even after we'd got her settling to sleep and staying in bed, if something exciting happened on any day then it would all go back to square one that night. I think we had about an episode a month for 3-4m, then they became less frequent, less severe, and more easily resolved.

I like a PP's suggestion of having the entire house 'go to bed' at the same time, to reinforce the understanding that it is bedtime now.

Last but not least, the MN Mantra: "This, too, will pass."

[toomanywheeliebins]

There was one that worked v well- sleep sleep now I think it was called. It basically hypnotises them to sleep. Recommended on here with similar results
It's pricey though available from amazon but worth it

[CapnMurica]

Oh god, 1-2 weeks

Part of the problem is that (and I completely admit this is my problem) I find it really difficult to stay calm with him at the moment, specifically about this issue. I never used to be like this, and I'm not stressed about anything else, but I think because he almost seems to be trying to wind me up, I'm setting myself up for a fall before we've even begun. I want to be a parent that enjoys bedtime, at the moment I am completely failing at that!

[dsg222]

(Flowers)

[Lonz]

My son had a baby gate on his bedroom door, it's recently been taken off. But I assume that made him used to having to stay in his room.

Don't let him nap during the day, if he does let him stay up a bit later. Then put him to bed with a book, then say goodnight. My son (also 3) kept coming out his room but I kept putting him back into his room every time without talking and left him.
If he is a bit playful at bedtime I let him play with his toys for a bit in his room, he soon falls asleep.

Maybe he thinks you're playing a game when you're sitting outside. Let him have a choice to stay in his room or leave it, if he leaves he's only going back in there again. He'll get bored. Can't you lock the bathroom door from the outside?

[TheFecklessFairy]

Rapid return for as long as it takes - could be days! Don't speak, don't look at him, don't interact in any way whatsoever. Just keep returning. Wear headphones if necessary

[Strictlyison]

Or ear plugs. Don't feel guilty about shouting at him. I would take a double approach with him - a positive consequence if he stays in bed, and a negative one if he gets out. So do your normal routine - if you think a bath wakes him up in the evening, skip the bath. Bedtime milk, toilet trip, teeth, favourite teddy, story. Stay with him in bed for about ten minutes to sing quiet songs and tell him a made up story in the dark. Then, tell him that you will come back in two minutes and give him a kiss/sing another song ONLY if he stays in bed. If kiss and song doesn't work for him, think of a bribe. A sticker book, smiley face, a special breakfast, anything that would work for him - you will need to explain this in advance. You could even say that every time he will stay in his bed for five minutes you will give him 5 pence and he can get a special toy at the end of the week. Stick to it, if he gets up as others have said, no talking, put him back to bed super nanny style.