Are mixed race people black??

(235 Posts)
franch Wed 19-Jan-05 14:29:20

Great article in Feb Good Housekeeping celebrating 20 "black and Asian" women who are "changing the face of Britain". However, included in the list are at least 2 mixed-race women: Kelly Holmes and Zadie Smith. I'm not arguing with these women's achievements, but surely it would've been simple enough to call it a list of "black, Asian and mixed-race" women??? Would these 2 have been included in a list of white women, as they are both 50% white?

As the white mother of a mixed-race woman (albeit only 1 year old!), it makes me feel irrelevant. And I also feel DD is missing out on having inspirational role-models identified for her.

Help me write a letter to GH about this. What points should I cover? Also, for reference, here is the rest of the list - I may have missed some others who are also mixed race:

Meera Syal
Baroness Valerie Amos
Kelly Holmes
Parween Warsi
Baroness Patricia Scotland
Gurinder Chadha
Yasin Alibhai-Brown
Doreen Lawrence
Zeinab Badawi
Shami Chakrabarti
Vanessa Mae
Trisha Goddard
Pinky Lilani
Denise Lewis
Serena Rees
Tessa Sanderson
Reeta Chakrabarti
Zaiba Malik
Zadie Smith
Baroness Flather

Ones to watch:
Parminder Nagra
Jamelia
Ruzwana Bashir
Mishal Husain
Nina Wadia

justhayley Sun 11-Mar-12 22:24:06

Havnt read through all the replies but good for you for standing up to this bull. I'm mixed race and had a black teacher who always used to say I was black even at a young age it upset me, especially as it was my White mum thy was bringing me up! Te whole black president things winds me up royally! If Obama was called mixed race it may stop articles like the one,! Really grates on me

EldritchCleavage Sun 11-Mar-12 01:00:17

"I have no doubt that she will identify more with the black community because the level of acceptance and inclusivity is so much higher."
Hmn. Not my experience. I've lived in both Africa and Europe and think the level of bigoted arseholes, while still a minority, is depressingly high in both.

ReadyToDie, your post makes perfect sense to me.

It is sad that so many people, including some posters on this thread, interpret a person insisting on a mixed race identity as being caused by aversion to being thought of as black. It is absolutely not that in my case. Interestingly, my mother, who is white, told me she could not think of herself as 'white', when used in opposition to black, after all these years of marriage to my father. She identifies as being on the same side as him so strongly (as he does with her) that it has transcended their original identity. They have adopted one another's identities alongside their own, which makes me amused and proud in equal measure.

On terminology, I wonder what other posters think of the term 'bi-racial', which I always found useful but has fallen out of fashion.

citytovillage Sat 10-Mar-12 10:01:50

Gwenick- i am mixed race and find certain terms offensive - half caste and coloured especially.

ReadyToDie Fri 09-Mar-12 20:09:49

I believed in the one drop theory until I had my kids (mixed race). Now I see them growing up and eager to be part of both worlds, accepted by both worlds, interested in both sides of their heritage, very aware of one white parent and one black parent and being 'different' to both black and white children....and I feel that by saying 'you are black' to them I am denying them all that they are. Don't know if that makes sense?

citytovillage Fri 09-Mar-12 20:06:08

FWIW- I was brought up to view Half caste as an offensive term -if you look at the history of it's origins in the indian caste system. It's used in a derogatory fashion. Coloured is also offensive. It suggests the base point is white people and then everyone else had colour added. Does it mean that white people are un- coloured?

citytovillage Fri 09-Mar-12 20:01:37

As a mixed woman myself, I would say it depends on the person. For myself I would say no. Some mixed people have no black heritage. Some mixed people are wrongly identified as being black. From the USA comes the concept of one drop of black in you makes you black; I personally disagree with this. Some mixed people see themselves as black. Sometimes racism within both black and white communities leaves mixed people feeling outside if both- neither either.

cheapandchic Fri 09-Mar-12 17:53:34

hey french. that video is great. Halle berry should know better.

I also like what the girl said about it being 'by chance' that she is mixed. I hope I will be able to explain to my mixed race daughters that you can't help who you fall in love with and it just so happened that their parents have different skin colours. It really doesn't mean anything.

arronsmum Fri 09-Mar-12 15:24:02

to belgium waffle, you +I are so different,thank goodness.i am half caste,my son who is white agrees.I AM NOT OPFFENDED.we'r too politically correct nowadays. we accepted it years ago,y not now?I would be happy if some1 says to me(+they have done so) well u dont really look black, your'e more white than black ,etc. we'r entitled to our own opinions and to call ourselves what we want. we not even supposed to use the word coloured anymore.this P. C. world gets us nowhere

franch Mon 13-Feb-12 13:35:21
cerys74 Fri 10-Feb-12 16:04:40

I have a question about other racial mixes: my mother is welsh (of french/welsh extraction) and my dad is syrian (there's also some chechen in there somewhere). I have red hair and white skin, so most people think I'm white British (even though I grew up in the Middle East).

My welsh family say I'm not really welsh, my syrian family don't consider me to be syrian. What do you call someone of Arab-European descent? What am I?!

BelgianWaffle Fri 10-Feb-12 15:46:50

This is a totally fascinating thread!

NB: The term half-caste is offensive. I still hear it and it still annoys me that this is in many places, perfectly innocently used as a term for MR people.

Dual Heritage is a new one that I have heard recently, yet this ignores that fact that a person might be from three or four different nationalities, or have two mixed parents of totally different races. I think it is a bit ridiculous.

Mixed Race is fine by me. I am MR and have never ever thought of myself as white. At first glance, people will always look at a person of colour and automatically make assuptions about them. I have walked into shops and been followed around by the security guard in expensive shops, been asked if I am in the right place when in expensive hotels. I have struggled to get service etc, etc. As a black person you always have to work twice as hard to disprove peoples' conscious and subconscious prejudice. It is all fine to have the attitude of colour-blindness, but unfortunately the world doesn't work like that. I wake up in my skin every day. I wish that a person's skin colour was the same as having blue eyes, or auburn hair, just a feature but sadly, it comes with many, many more associations.

Mummyofone I totally agree with you about MR representation in the media. Now that MR people are in adverts etc, black people have disappeared!
righton- I totally agree!
MUM2BLESS very clear argument re: Tiger Woods. He chose to re-define himself but at the end of the day, he was still called a bl&*k Bast*&%d. his re-labelling of himself as Cablinasian proved to be futile.

Whenever people have told me "I don't think of you as black" They do not realise that this is not a compliment. It is an insult, as they imply that being black is something awful and that I should be flattered to be thought of as an 'honorary white'. My mum is white and I am certainly proud to be identified with her, as she is a wonderful person, but I am equally proud to be and prefer to be thought of as black.

duchesse Fri 10-Feb-12 10:44:28

I've always felt extremely uncomfortable with the terms "mixed race" (implying that there are several races to begin with), and "black" (since it also draws on the concept of a difference or gulf. I just find these attempts to divide people up into groups rather bizarre, which imo is going to become harder and harder as time goes on and people from different origins get together and have babies. Can totally understand why people would want to identify their heritage/country of ancestry but don't see why they would feel they had anything more than superficial in common with another person with the same colour skin unless their Grandparents/parents came from the same place and they actually had a shared heritage.

As far as I can tell, we all have mixed heritage. Skin colour is a relatively irrelevant aspect of that imo.

Disclaimer: I am about as Northern-looking as you can get without having white-blonde hair. I have a middle Eastern blood group for example and my father looks Middle eastern, although I have very fair skin and blue eyes.

mummyofonegirl Fri 10-Feb-12 10:43:54

Following on from above, I have also noticed a sense of disdain from some MR people and their parents at the thought of being considered black. The tone is almost as if it is an offence to be deemed black.

E.G. to MR brothers: 1 who identified more with his black side (Bro A) and once that idenifies with his white side (Bro B)
Bro B asks Bro A why he idenifies with his black side more as it is less of an advantage. He argues that he cannot see the benefits of considering himself as being black. BUT Bro B is an actor and recently took on a role as the first black * in the UK. (omitted as i do not want to reveal Bro B's true ID)

It is wrong to choose your black side when it suits you and denounce it when it is more convienient to be MR.
This is offensive. I do not have a choice in what race I am. I am black. Black when it is cool to be black and black when I am in a place where I "am not welocome".

This is another reason why I believe that MR people should be and say what they ... MR.

I know that it is sometimes not was easy as that (i was going to say not black and white but...) but that is my general line of thought.

mummyofonegirl Fri 10-Feb-12 10:32:20

This is interesting as the answer to this question has changed throughout my life time. being a child of the 80s, if you were mixed race you would automatically considered black. White society were less likely to acknowledge or identify MR people as being white, in fact they were "half-caste" - half outcast presumably the black half.

I had MANY MR friends growing up who denied their white side and did all they could to "Learn" how to be black- They adopted the "black-popular culture" of the day and embraced it more than I did or was allowed to - all in an attempt to prove their blackness. In retrosoect it seemed as though there was an inner conflict of identity. Society (inc their parents) was telling them they were black but they knew that one of their parents and one side of their family were not black. How do you expect them to understand that?

After Mel B of the spice girls publically refused to take a racial side (she was neither black nor white, but both) it was an announcement to the confused world that MR people did exisit. You did not have to choose. Since that time i have noticed a new found confidence in MR people and their parents. A sense of belonging and a blalance in their identity. This I believe is very healthy for the MR individual as it provides a sense of reason and logic to their being.

I can totally apprecialte this although fully black I am of both African AND Caribbean parentage. Throughout my life i have been asked which of the two I am. i have ALWAYS been taught that I am both and have been encouraged to embrace both cultures and it is truely a blessing. BUT even still I have been troubled as I am neither one or the other and sometimes as human beings I do believe that you want to have a sense of belonging. Whether that be with people of the same age, gender, race nationalilty or interests.

One thing that I feel should be said is that since the acceptance and acknowledgement of MR as a seperate race altogether, I feel that there is less positive representation of black people in the media, Particularly in advertising and the Music industry. MR people are more often used to represent black in the spectrum of race. for instance you would often have a Indo Asian person, a Caucasian White person and Oriental person (although admittedly less so) and a more often than not a MR person no Black (African) person.

It is good to see more MR people being represented particularly as they are the fastest growing race in the UK, but it gives the impression that being MR is the acceptable face of diversity. Black people do exisit and it important for the self esteem o black youth to see them represented in a positive, light and in positions of perceived beauty - in much the same way as MR people are.

MUM2BLESS Fri 02-Dec-11 19:43:06

Thanks APGifts. Never heard of what you mentioned before.

What is the sitiuation with black families with siblings of varying shades of black. I know black people who have black parents, yet they are very light skinned.

APGifts Sat 26-Nov-11 20:06:17

.
THE FACTS on Mixed-Race Linage:
.
1) It is often a surprise for people to learn that,
in reality, there is actually No Such Thing
As a “Light Skinned Black” person.
.
2) Very few people seem to be aware of the fact that the term
“Light Skinned Black” is really nothing more than a racist
oxymoron created by Racial Supremacists in an effort to
forcibly deny those Mixed-Race individuals, who are of
a Multi-Generational Multiracially-Mixed (MGM-Mixed)
lineage, the right to fully embrace and to also received
public support in choosing to acknowledge the truth
regarding their full ancestral heritage and lineage.
.
3) The people who have been slapped with
the false label and oxymoronic misnomer
of “Light Skinned Black” person are simply
Mixed-Race individuals — who are from those
families which have been “of a CONTINUALLY
Mixed-Race Lineage THROUGHOUT all of their
multiple generations” (starting with the very
first generation of racial-admixing and
leading to their present generation.).
.
4) Seeing that every other Mixed-Race group is allowed
the dignity of receiving support in having itself referred to
by the term that it most prefers … the question becomes
…“Why should the situation be any different for
those Mixed-Race individuals who are of an
Multi-Generational Multiracially-Mixed
MGM-Mixed) / Mixed-Race Lineage?”.
.
5) If an MGM-Mixed / Mixed-Race individual would like to
be referred to by the term ‘Mixed-Race’ (which is what they
actually are) rather than by that of “Light-Skinned Black“
(a term, which, once again, has the racist-origin of being
nothing more than an oxymoronic-phrase that was both
created and coined by Racial Supremacists in an effort to
try to deny these Mixed-Race people their right to and support in
publicly acknowledging and also embracing their FULL-Lineage)
there is no reason that they (like every other group on the planet
– whether Mixed-Race or not) should not be allowed the right
to choose the term that society uses in referring to them
(and to have their full-lineage acknowledged within that term).
.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
RELATED LINKS:
.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/4160
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/4157
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/3331
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1399
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/2511
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1402
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1003
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/3998
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/4065
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/3999
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1400
.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
ALSO …. here is a brief COMMENTARY on … the constant
misapplication of the racist ‘One-Drop Rule’^^ (to the
people who are of any part-Black / Mixed-Race Lineage):
.
[^^ PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THE FACT THAT :
.
The racist ‘one-drop’ “rule” was made ‘illegal’ in the U.S. in
1967 by the U.S. Supreme Court the ‘Loving vs. VA’ case
(i.e. The ‘Loving’ case) – where the U.S. Supreme Court ruled ...
.
--- 1) All ‘Anti-Miscegenation’ Laws found throughout the U.S.;
.
--- 2) The racist ‘VA Racial Integrity Act’ (upon which most
of the anti-miscegenation ‘laws’ were founded); and
.
--- 3) The ('black-lineage mocking' and exceedingly) racist
‘One-Drop Rule’ (upon which the ‘Act’ was based.)
.
… as being ‘UN-Constitutional’ (i.e. illegal, banned, etc.)
due to the fact that it was both 'racist' and 'unscientific'.]
.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
Listed below are links to data on the Historical MYTH
of a Color-Based / Slave-Role HIERARCHY — as well
as the Urban LEGEND of Paper-Bag, Blue-Vein and
Other Allegations of Features-Based Entry ‘TESTS’:
.
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/4153
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/4154
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/2885
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/2511
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1400
.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
If there are any questions regarding the information
presented, I can be reached anytime at the email
address and / or websites noted below.
.
Thank you and have a good day.
.
Sincerely,
.
– AllPeople (AP) G.i.f.t.s.
mailto:soaptalk@hotmail.com
Founder and Moderator of the following
online Lineage-Discussion Communities
groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed
groups.yahoo.com/group/MGM-Mixed
groups.yahoo.com/group/FGM-Mixed
www.youtube.com/user/APGifts
www.facebook.com/allpeople.gifts
.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
SOURCE:
.
www.facebook.com/notes/allpeople-gifts/the-facts-on-mixed-race/321878451159708
.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.

MUM2BLESS Mon 07-Nov-11 22:15:28

Been informed that this not the longest talk. It has generated lots of comments.

Its interesting to hear the different views on this topic.

MUM2BLESS Sun 06-Nov-11 12:21:15

Sorry meant to say I am black, not if I am black .

MUM2BLESS Sun 06-Nov-11 12:17:38

Is this the longest running talk?

I read something yesterday that made me think.

The answer you get will depend on who your asking. For example if I am black, if I answer this I would say that mix race (black and white) are mixed race.

Came home yesterday and saw a newspaper artical within the daily telegraph

Racist attack on woods (Tiger Woods that is) Steve Williams stuns golf world with abuse against former boss) using the wrld black in the sentence.
Tiger woods has mix parentage.

Therefore it only confirms that some of society sees mix race people as BLACK.

SOME people in society dont really look at the shade of a persons colour they only see the black pigmnet within the person, so whether mix race or light skinned black some people don't know or think about that they only see the black pigment.

In this country there is racism, and a lot of it is hidden racism.

Its importnat that a person is taught to appreciate both side of their parentage.

At the end of the day its about being confident in who you are as a person.

Do not say you do not see my colour or you are colour blind. I see other peoples colour but it its not a problem to me.

franch Fri 14-Oct-11 11:05:28
ZhenXiang Mon 26-Sep-11 01:07:15

Fantastic post righton

DH is mixed race caribbean, south american, middle eastern, but is very dark skinned with strong african features as was his mother who was also mixed race and his father who is also mixed race. They all experienced a large amount of racism and non-acceptance from white people so completely identify with their black culture that did accept them for who they are/were.

I am white, DD is also mixed race quite dark but with a mix of caucasian and african features. She has a good relationship with my family (all white) and DH's (a complete mix of black, mixed race and white). I have no doubt that she will identify more with the black community because the level of acceptance and inclusivity is so much higher. I personally have no problem with this as for me whatever makes her feel good about herself and more confident is in her best interest. I will not feel 'neglected' if she chooses to do this as I know she will still recognise that I am her mum regardless.

royaljelly Mon 26-Sep-11 00:29:36

I 'LOATHE' being catigorised into ethnic background on application forms and will always put, 'ME', or my name. I also put Aetheist as religion...
Must be why it has taken a year to get an interview / job.

royaljelly Mon 26-Sep-11 00:18:28

My mother is English White, my father black Nigerian. I think they both had differnet ideas on childrearing and neither was willing to admit the other was right so after their divorce I had to adapt to both. They both also thought the other was RACIST so I have heard every argument for Black & White going.

Surprisingly, due to their own prejudices and fears I have learn't that everyone of every colour has the ability to be evil or good and therfore tend to make friends across cultural boundries.

Some politeness is also an advantage, apologising for eating a bacon butty next to your muslim collegue as you haven't had time for breakfast and so on. It isn't the fact that you have apologised but that you recognise they may find it offensive. Such examples are: Not wishing JWitness collegues a merry xmas but hoping they enjoy on their time off and they may not want to do secret santa, (please god no........), around xmas. Also if a team leader, you can be celebrating the festival of light (my fave) or hannuka ( lots of fun), except for J witness, although they will sometimes join in if titled as something non-religious.

Rambling now but multicultural children tend to be the most tolerant and open of all creeds. Possibly from all the sh*t they get from their own dual heritage.

I must also point out that mixed race children also have a very high percentage of having pshycological identity issues and depression linked to this. If your child is mixed race you should not just socialise with parent race but with other (any) mixed race child of the same age.

frumpyq Sun 18-Sep-11 02:29:00

I'm English/white and so are 99.9% of my large family (Although if we went back far enough that statement could be challenged).

But 4 years ago my Daughter broke the chain and produced a child of 'Mixed race' who is loved dearly for who he is as opposed to what colour his skin is.He really has opened my eyes in respect of someones colour and i'm now officially colour blind.

The more people born in the UK with mixed race can only be a good thing, for me it's certainly broken down barriers and ignorance on my part.

His culture is predominantly English and I don't attach a colour to that too.

Blu Sun 15-May-11 18:01:46

RightOn - as the mother of a mixed race (Asian Caucasion) child I was right with you on the black political definition, on the grounds that lists such as the ne in the OP exist ONLY because of thier relationship to opression and racism. If there were no race-based discrimination, no one would think to create such a list. There is no list (afaik) of successful people with straight hair / size 6 feet / green eyes or any other genetically determined characteristic!
So it isn't a matter of degree, or personal cultural identity, or white parents wanting to be 'included' - politically it is about people who have probably overcome a degree of discriination at some stage. So, politically, 'black' is an inclusive term.

However much DS relates to and identifies with me as much as dp, he is black and I am not. I don't find this any more of an issue in my relationship with him as his mother than the fact that he is a boy (even though he has half my chromosomes...why aren't they acknowledged, wah!) and I am not!

But then you go on to intoduce a hieracrhy of political black by denigrating Asian people as a group...

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