AIBU - Contact vs. CSA

[Lioninthesun]

I emailed ex on dd's behalf about a month ago to ask if he would like to see dd (as she was crying and talking about him a lot, making pictures at nursery etc) and I felt I had to try. He hasn't seen her (his choice) since she was 6 mo and she will be 4 in August.

All emails from him in reply focussed on CSA and his need for legal protection so I couldn't 'get any more money'. No amount of me explaining he has no parental rights (didn't turn up for BC) and that seeing as we have CSA there is no more money I can get (he only pays £5 pw as went self employed once CSA put a PAYE order on his workplace) - which I thought was a good thing, after all he is legally set not to pay any more and we don't have to talk about it as that is why CSA are involved.

How wrong was I? Every email. He barely touched on dd, other than to suggest I was trying to find out his 'real' income or to get him to email saying he doesn't want to see her (he seems to think I would want to hurt her in this way despite all evidence to the contrary). He had legal advice 3 years ago that he should be trying to get more contact to see her, but did nothing about it. I told him the same at the time and asked him to see her, the Judge as well (he took us to court to try to get out of maintenance when he met his new g.f) and has since denied we ever even had a relationship despite living with me while he had 2 operation, changed jobs x2 Christmases and clearly had a child with me.

So, I've decided I need to massively back pedal. He is clearly not ready to be a good father, as you can't avoid the fact he is still angry about money. He hasn't asked for contact despite knowing he was legally entitled to it, as well as me asking for him to see her at the Court case and the Judge agreeing it would be a good idea. He couldn't even say he would attempt to look after her (not speak ill of me or risk her life with dangerous activities) and instead chose to continue talking about his protection and him not trusting me .

AIBU to stop now after over 15 emails where he has dragged up all of the old arguments and I have repeatedly tried to get him to focus only on his daughter, to no avail? I even said I could pay his CSA into a special savings account for her and screenshot it for him as and when he wanted. I also was clear that I never want to meet him and would have various friends chaperone their meetings, so it couldn't be misconstrued like I want him back in my life, ha!

I have considered stopping the paltry amount of CSA, but if I am honest I feel this is the only connection they now have. Also it sickens me that he can use this as an excuse not to see her. I feel it shows his true colours and that he isn't worthy of meeting her. I've said we need to wait until we can email solely about dd and nothing else. AIBU?

[sandgrown]

Even if he has no contact he should support his daughter and one day it may be more than five pounds. Do not cancel it . If he wants proof he can get a statement from CSA

[Lioninthesun]

I feel even if I dropped CSA he would still have some grudge and the fact he is going on about 'protection' for himself when we are talking about contact doesn't make me think he cares about her at all! I feel he is in it for the wrong reasons.

[KongKing]

I feel he is in it for the wrong reasons.

He isnt in it at all! He pays the bare minimum he an get away with and went to excessive lengths to ensure he would pay the bare minimum. He hasnt seen her since before she was ever aware of him (so really she has never met him) he ignored 15! Emails asking for contact and turned the conversation to his own "protection" (money) every time.

Honestly, he doesnt want to be a father. He is telling you that loud and clear. You have tried, a fair bit harder than I would! And he wants none of it.

Stop torturing yourself. He has made his decision. Leave it up to him now. If he decides down the line he wants to know her then its his choice. Keep collecting the £5. It is your daughter's money. She is entitled to it. Dont do him any favours.

[queenofthepirates]

Absolutely not unreasonable-you've tried your best and he's not prepared to man up and grown a pair to have contact with his child. Putting the maintenance into perspective, at £5 a week, over 18 years he will pay you less than £5,000. I would take every penny of that and spend it on comforts for your DD and yourself. Some men just don't deserve to be fathers.

[Lioninthesun]

Thanks you. I felt I had to try so that dd knew I had if she asks later on.

It was bad timing though as he was apparently away getting married (to the g.f he bought to court who he owns the business with as her as director) but I obviously didn't know that. I think I need to realise he will always make excuses and I need to leave it until/if he decides she is a human being and wants to see her enough to ignore the £5 pw (which "directly affects my ability to save for a house of my own")

I posted because he has wound me up and I don't want to drop it if I am acting based on my emotions - wanted outside perspectives .

[Quitelikely]

Five sodding pound!

Totally disgusting and no doubt false.

Make sure you ask for regular assessments of his earnings.

[KongKing]

"directly affects my ability to save for a house of my own"

He actually said that? what a fucking tool.

[Lioninthesun]

His opinion is that I have inherited a house (when my mum died) and therefore I am financially secure and so he shouldn't have to pay as he was never 'given' a house. I don't need the money, so to speak, but the original reason I went to CSA was so that it WOULDN'T be an issue - a 3rd party would negotiate that and we wouldn't have arguments about it. At court he even said he would give us more if I dropped CSA. In hindsight that probably said a lot to the Judge! I declined as not only can I not trust him to pay without CSA, esp considering the run-around he gave them, but I didn't want anything to be about the money! I feel strongly he is as protected as he can be already by paying the minimum so I don't know why he is still dragging it up as an issue.

Sorry, don't mean to drip feed, but he's been poking at me for weeks and I've had enough.

[Lioninthesun]

Yes Kingkong - you can see why I am seething!
Not to mention he was earning £45k when we split and his new wife is on at least that if not far far more!

[KongKing]

Oh i have been there. Reasons my exp has given to date for stopping maintenance: had to buy a new car, had to buy an enagement ring, had to buy a new house, has to pay for his wedding. Seething doesnt even come close. Of course his need to have a flash car is greater than DCs need to eat.

[Lioninthesun]

My dad pointed out that if he had wanted contact at any point he would have made sure of it - the amount of energy and effort he put into hiding his earnings has shown what he can do when he puts his mind to it. Him saying now that he even got free legal advice telling him that he could get contact all those years ago really does speak volumes.

All I wanted was a date and a time so I could arrange their meeting at this end - feel hugely naive now. I actually imagined he might be feeling a little guilty at his behaviour towards her!

[sandgrown]

Make sure you ask for regular checks on his income. If he is a director he is an employee and a deduction from earnings order can be imposed. If you are aware that his lifestyle exceeds his declared income you can ask them to investigate but you would have to try and provide some evidence.

[Lioninthesun]

I've given up on all of that - they have it set up the way they want it and honestly it was never about money but responsibility. Him waving £20pm in my face as an excuse not to see his daughter when they have spent so much time sorting it out (and blaming me all the while) is just proving to me she means nothing to him. IIRC she is director and him a mere minion.

If I am honest I am starting to think his new wife has this sewn up - he can't go on the mortgage as he is apparently earning minimum wage, she gets all of his income and is the name on the title. If they split he is in serious trouble and risks her exposing his fraud - but again, he has done this all to himself and allowed himself to be led here. Talk about out of the frying pan into the fire! Not my problem.

I didn't think it would be this difficult, but at least I have tried. I feel I am much more aware of why he doesn't see her now (CBA seems to be top of the list). He still hasn't come up with suggestions on what I should say to her when she asks about him either, just that they were "expecting her to turn up on the angry and with questions one day" - nice of them to help before it gets to that point, eh?

Anyway, thank you - I needed to check I wasn't just being silly not cancelling CSA as I am scared he will say to her I cared more about £5pw than her seeing him - but really that just makes him look more of a twat, doesn't it?

[Lioninthesun]

I might call the CSA to change where his £20pm goes and set up an account for her. Surely if it is all in a savings account for her he can't ever try to say to her I spent it on me!

[Starlightbright1]

I get £5 a week through CSA...I keep it coming as that way I know he is still alive.

I think you have done all you can to arrange contact...I think you can tell your DC when they grow up that you did everything you could to facilitate contact ..now is the time to focus on her Emotions.

[Lioninthesun]

Yes. It is hard to be so neutral about him and his family to her again after all of this. She still talks about him and his mum despite never meeting, and makes things up about them. I've never spoken badly of them but have to keep reminding her that she hasn't met them and may not. Do you have any advice star? I emailed a lady on my last thread who said she had books on emotions but she never replied.

[Starlightbright1]

The thing I have found/ learnt...It is a very long process. It isn't a question answers session that resolves it. I found the peak for my DS was when he first started school..The biff, chip books are a nice family with 2 parents, they seem to become more aware of the fact everyone else ( in there eyes) has 2 parents. I contnually resured him it wasn't his fault. when he asked me why I said I didn't know as I can't imagine making a choice not to see him . I answer questions as they crop up. Told him he has another son he doesn't see to help him see it wasn't about him. A teacher spoke to him at one point that really seemed to help..Someone else telling him it was nothing he did seemed to help. I have had the does he love me.. I have not said yes or no as I don't want him to grow up thinking this is love, however saying no could be equally as damaging so I said I can't answer. We talked about how we knew we loved people, how we know we love each other and pointed out as we don't see his dad we couldn't judge.

As for the money spend it IMO.. £20 a week while a lot compared to my £5 is still not a lot. If you save that over 14 years it looks a lot more and it looks like Dad has paid for a car, holiday, whatever your DD decides to spend it on where you have supported her through it all.

You do not need to justify to anyone what you do with that money.

I would say at 8 he seems ok with it, but then who knows how he will be at 9/10/11.

You can PM me anytime x

[Lioninthesun]

It's £5pw - £20pm I get - minimum like you.
Thank. I've been told by nursery that she is emotionally very mature which is why I've had to start dealing with this before school, it was just after the Easter Break she really struggled. Nursery have helped a lot talking about different family set ups. I think a pp on my thread when I was about to contact him said it is a bit like bereavement - they are mourning a loss - so I am trying to find a few age appropriate books on that and loss/jealousy. These seem to be the themes directed at other kids who get to see dad on weekends... It hurts so much not being able to help her other than to draw blanks as to why these men don't care.

Thanks for the offer of pm'ing. I only really use mn when in dire straits so fingers crossed I won't have to take you up on that. Nice to rant/question ppl in a similar situation sometimes!