Ex could collect dd from nursery??

[LoneMother]

I've been to look at two nurseries recently and I'm confused about their pick up/collecting child policies in relation to an absent father. Please could you help me?

Nursery 1 says they cannot release dd to her dad unless he knows the password. They said that he could not pick her up even if he has proof of his PR with him. They would call me straight away if he turned up.

Nursery 2 says legally if he turns up with proof of PR, he could take dd. They said passwords only apply to third party pick up (like a friend or uncle or grandparent) and even if they've never met him before, if he has ID and proof of PR they have to release her to him.

I always thought what nursery 2 said is accurate but I'm a bit upset because it's looking like no nursery for dd.

Does anyone know which one is the way the law works?

[Littlefish]

My understanding is that nursery 2 is correct. If a parent has parental responsibility, as long as there is not a court order in place, a school cannot refuse to let either parent take a child.

[3xcookedchips]

Can you define absent father?

The nursery have no right to withhold a child from a parent with PR in the absence of a court order.

[MeepMeepVroooom]

I had an issue where someone tried to collect my DD from nursery. It led to a whole different world of shit but my nursery has basically said the same as Nursery 2. However they have also told me that they would contact me first and if I said no as their contract is with me and they have a duty of care to my daughter they are within their rights to refuse a handover initially and call the police, it is then up to the police to make a decision (by that time I would have been able to get to the nursery)

It resulted in me going to court for a PSO for my ExH and a non-harassment order against his then girlfriend.

If you think it is likely to happen I would seek some legal advice about a PSO.

[Monetbyhimself]

What is your current situation ? Does he have contact with her ? Any court orders in place ? Residence order ?

[RedSpringer]

My exH has PR but when I enrolled dd in nursery they asked who would usually collect her (me)... They won't release her to him without password AND my pre warning at drop off. If he turned up tomorrow to collect & obv knows the password they would ring me before letting him take her. No idea if that means they are breaking the law but their contract is with me and if I felt that he could collect her without my permission then I'd seriously reconsider.

[LoneMother]

I thought so little :(

He has no contact with her by his choice and no court orders or anything in place.

It's such a shame because this makes it look like she won't be able to go to nursery for now. How bizarre that someone who hasn't seen their child almost since birth can just appear and take them all because of PR. I wonder if maybe I should look into court order type stuff.

[ItsNotATest]

If he has no contact by his choice, isn't it unlikely he would want to take her from nursery?

And why can't she go to nursery 1?

[PatriciaHolm]

If you are genuinely do concerned that you won't send her to nursery then yes you do need to sort something out as school will have the same approach. When is she due to start school?

[LoneMother]

Nursery 1 haven't got it right about the law so presumably if he turns up and they try to stop him and the police get called, they won't stop him.

Every so often I get messages asking if she's started nursery yet. That's all he asks about her so I'm a bit on edge about it all in general. I'm probably reading too much into it but I want to know where I stand legally.

She's not due to start school for a long while yet so I hadn't really thought about it but you're right it will definitely need sorting for then.

[geologygirl]

No a nursery cannot deny a parent pick up....BUT if they've never clapped eyes on him they cannot hand over your DD. That means any man could turn up with a birth certificate and claim PR. So if course nursery 1 is using a bit if common sense. My sons nursery told me they couldn't prevent his absent dad from collecting him....but as they didnt know him they would contact me first to check.
Even if a relative picks up my child (pre-arranged) and knows the password, if the member of staff that opens the door has never seen them before they grill them and check with other staff to make sure that person is actually known.

I'd send your DD to nursery 1....

[MeepMeepVroooom]

No but they would ring you first. It's a tactic used by some private nurseries to give the RP the time required to get the the nursery themselves (at least that's what mine and the police told me)

Could you pick a nursery close to work so you can easily get there if required?

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

Can you not just send her to number one but as you have no contact with him just not tell him and not put any of his details on the enrolment form?

[MeepMeepVroooom]

Ring nursery 1 today and find out exactly what their policies and procedures are.

If they say they won't hand over DD they won't. They wouldn't say it otherwise.

[chocoholic21]

I checked this with my daughters nursery before she started there. Their policy is the same as your nursery 2 in that they can't deny a parent with PR access to their child, but the manager also said they would not release a child with an adult they didn't know and would call me.

The thing that works in my favour is that we have a court order which very specifically lays out the times ExP has access to DD so if he turned up to collect her and the police were then called he couldn't take her as none if his access time falls within the hours she would be at nursery. I explained this to the nursery manager and showed her the court order and she agreed that she would never let DD leave with ExP and would call me. I was happy with this but can see that without the court order and with you Ex specifically asking when your DD starts nursery, your situation is different and I must admit it would make me think twice about sending DD and carefully think about how close you are to a nursery and how quick you could get there if you needed to.

[Littlefish]

But Meep, they cannot legally refuse to hand a child over to a parent who has parental responsibility, unless a court order is in place.

[MeepMeepVroooom]

No but they may be like my nursery and have certain procedures in place which will delay handover giving the RP time to get to the nursery.

It's worth checking, obviously if the OP thinks it's a likely thing to happen then as I've suggested she should seek some legal advice. They would be able to advise her on what the best route to go down to avoid this happening would be.

[Littlefish]

Delaying is completely different to not handing over at all. In telling a parent that they would not hand a child over, the nursery is completely misleading the resident parent, giving them a false sense of security and saying that they (the nursery) will break the law.

[MeepMeepVroooom]

Yes but depending on their procedures they may know they will delay until the RP gets there hence them saying they won't hand over.

I would check with the nursery and seek legal advice personally.

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

They can refuse to handover if the child is visibly distressed to the point that they believe to hand over would be a cp issue obviously that would mean police and ss

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

www.childrenslegalcentre.com/

Give these people a call for quick and free legal advice

[JabberJabberJay]

Your ex may ask if your DD is attending nursery, but are you under any legal obligation to tell him if she is? And if she is, do you need to tell him which one?

In your shoes, I would find out where you stand legally either just not telling him she goes to nursery or not disclosing which one.

If you can get away with either of the above, it would save you the worry of him turning up.

[LoneMother]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I've managed to speak to nursery 1 again today and they confirmed that although they can't keep dd legally, they would do everything in their power to delay and stall for time until I could get there. I feel quite confident now in how they would handle it as the manager was very understanding about it all. She also said the thing someone further up (sorry I scanned up again but can't see who) said about child protection being an issue if they hand over.

I feel so much better about this now but I'm still going to look into legal advice to make it more official.

[Monetbyhimself]

They sound com

[Monetbyhimself]

Ooops phone having a fit!

The manager sounds very clued in, possibly from personal experience.

Good luck with getting things sorted. With a loose cannon like your Ex it's much better to have residency legalised.

[Ponkypink]

I agree with geologygirl- have not had any issues like this but have had nursery phone me to confirm it was ok for daughter to leave with my mum (even though she was already on the list of approved adults who could collect her, because I'd forgotten to tell them that morning that she would be). If they've never met the man, he can go there and shout about PR until it's coming out their ears but if they have never seen him, they can't release a child into his care unless they are ok with liability for whatever happens after, if he turned out not to be a parent for example. They would have to call the police, and you would have plenty time to get there while this was going on (hopefully it won't!)