Advice desperately needed on uprooting my family yet again! Help!

[MizZan]

I haven't been on in a long time but find my family facing a dilemma and need all the sensible, sensitive advice I can get. DH is British, I am not. Our kids, 2 and 6, were born in the UK and grew up there till last year, when we decided to move to my home country to be nearer my family and try it out before the kids got too old. For reasons too long to go into, it hasn't worked out for us, financially or logistically, and we've now got 2 options open to us.

Option 1: go back to the UK. We can move back to the same town we were living in before (which we like a lot), can get a place for ds1 at his old school, can afford a decent house, and can both go back to our old jobs. So this would be a very comfortable option. We would not be able to save much, but more than we can here, and the kids would have a stable life, a wonderful school, and we'd all have a circle of friends. My own job there is interesting and challenging (and part-time to boot), DH's much less so.

Option 2: move to Singapore. DH and I lived here for a few years pre-kids, and liked it. We both have "Asia expertise", professionally speaking. DH has now been offered his dream job there, and the money would be enough that I could give up work for a few years (though in my field that makes it extremely tough to get back in), or alternatively I could try to work out there after an initial year of settling in, and we could sock away a reasonable amount of cash. Not talking millions of pounds here - we are not bankers - but enough to make a significant difference.

However - my original reason for leaving Asia was I was sick of being so far from friends and family. Now, with 2 kids, that would be even more the case. I don't know a soul out there any more.

Our older son found the transition from the UK to my home country very very stressful - he has always handled change poorly. We've discovered that in Singapore he'd probably have to change schools after the first year there anyway, if we wanted him somewhere good, so that means he will potentially have been at 4 different schools in 4 years, along with adjusting to living in a very alien culture with no friends or family around. I also have an aging mother (my father died two years ago) in my home country, who would probably not be able (or willing) to visit us - and I would end up bringing the kids back to my home country (18 hr flight from singapore with all the attendant jet lag on both ends) a couple of times a year, which is no fun.

And I am concerned that with all this shifting around, nowhere would really feel like home to the children - their roots in the UK and in my home country are not strong enough (not sure ours are either). My own childhood was very stable and very happy, and I wonder how much damage we'd be doing by denying them that kind of upbringing.

What to do, ladies? Sorry this is so long. Any thoughts or advice would be most welcome, whether you've been-there-done-that, or not...

[myermay]

hi, i've just seen your post. I've never moved around much but i'd be inclined to go back to the UK, reasons' for this are that at least you'd know people, things would be familiar etc as you've already lived here. You said that your eldest doesn't like too much change....going to singapore will be all new for him again won't it? more stress.

Have you made a decisions yet?

[expatmama]

Are you any further on with your decision?

If you go back to the UK do you think you will have a sense of relief, and feel that you are "home"? Or might you feel that you missed a great chance in Singapore? Can you talk to your eldest about the choice you need to make? If he feels involved in the decision making process, it might make him feel more in control and get him buoyed up about a move? He might surprise you with his response.

I really feel for you. I am now living in my 4th country in 9 years, but only made the most recent move with 10 month old DS1, and DS2 was born here, so can offer no personal insight am afraid. What's your gut instinct?

Good luck deciding.

[kitbit]

If it were me I would probably move back to the UK, for the sake of bringing the children back to somewhere familiar, where they have a past.

Am I be simplistic by thinking that the choice here is really about either:

A) good job opportunities but big change plus lots of moving schools

or

B) slightly less good financial prospects but more stability, familiarity and less radical change

?

I suppose the being near family in your home country issue isn't really relevant as you will be moving away from them whatever happens.
I think I would choose B, even though the finances aren't so immediately attractive. I agree with you that stability is important, especially if your older son finds it hard to do change, and for the moment I think you need to make sure he's secure and not out of his depth.

Not sure I've helped, I hope it works out for you!

[beforesunrise]

hey, i have moved around a bit as a kid and teenager, i am not saying it was easy (it was not- in fact it was really hard esp when i was a teenager, but much less so as a kid). however, i cannot stress enough how much on the impact on kids depends on how stable and loving their family is. i had a lot of trouble integrating in the new country when we moved at 13, and yet i never felt totally isolated or totally lost because my parents and brothers were such a strong foundation and our home life was very good.

children are very adaptable in my opinion and as long as they see their parents are happy and making an effort to make them happy they will be too. changing schools and all that is very stressful but if there is parental input there it can go smoothly. it sounds like if you move to Singapore you would be taking at least some time off which i think is a good idea as you could then focus on your children for a while to make sure they are ok.

only you know how your relationship with dp will be affected by either move (if he has to give up his dream job, how upset/resentful will he be?) and that has to be a factor too.

i hope my post makes vague sense? all i am trying to say is that you can make it work either way, so don't worry too much, as long as you think you've done the right thing it will all work out fine.

good luck!

[MizZan]

hi ladies - thank you for all the advice. We are still struggling with the decision and dh is furious with me as I keep flip-flopping, so we're not having a great moment.

I'd just about got myself to the point where I could say yes let's go for it, but then I keep thinking of what we would be giving up by not going back to the UK and it holds me back. DH in the meantime has made it clear he'd be giving up his dream job (and yes a better pay package, by a reasonable amount) if we go to the UK, and also is dreading returning to a 3 hr daily commute and a boss demanding long hours and a less interesting job.

sigh. I fear we are going to end up settling on the UK just because it's safest, but that he'll be resentful and angry about it for a long long time to come. Also just wondering if I'm being an idiot - in S'pore we could save the same amount with me not working as we could save in the UK with me working (part time) - so it is a big sacrifice. If the money and dh's happiness weren't part of the question it would be much easier.

[manyhands]

We moved back to the UK as we thought it would be better for our hildren and feel we really made the right decision. My son had moved house too many times too and we came when he was a toddler and never regretted it. I do miss being in a beter financial position in Asia though.

[Buda]

I thinkSingapore could bring lots of great opportunities for you as a family.

I would involve your son in the discussions.

Put a time limit on it - say 2 years.

Returning to the UK sounds like the safe option but I suspect that your DH for one would be very unhappy.

You already know you can have a great life in Singapore.

(sorry -space bar playing up!)

[beforesunrise]

"f the money and dh's happiness weren't part of the question it would be much easier."

yes, but then it wouldnt be real life would it? i don't think moving back to the UK is ncesessarily the easiest option...

tbh it sounds to me like you are a bit fed up yourself with moving around, which is understandable. i think if you are honest with dh about it you will find it a lot easier to talk and make a decision.

i second pp- involve your children in teh decision.

good luck and let us know what you decide...

[Kindersurprise]

Difficult decision to have to make. I think that I would be inclined to go to Singapore if it was going to be a better career move for DH.

A friend of ours had to make this kind of decision, to move from Germany to America with 3 young children or not. She dug her heels in and said that she would not go. Her DH has since spoken to my DH and said that it was a big crisis in their marriage, which was terrible as they have always had a very strong relationship. He has said (and she accepts this) that he would not be willing to let another opportunity like this, if he ever gets one, to pass him by.

I would be worried that my DH would resent me and the children for holding him back.

Would the Singapore job be time-limited?

How do your children feel about it?

[expatmama]

"sigh. I fear we are going to end up settling on the UK just because it's safest".

none of us like change, but sometimes when we go for it, we surprise ourselves.

big hugs.
s
x

[Shitemum]

At the beginning of the thread I'd have said go back to the UK but now I'd say go to Singapore.

Or, ask DP if he can apply for equally good jobs in the UK.

Dream jobs don't always turn out to be as good as you'd hoped...

Sorry, not very helpful as now it looks like I'm saying go to the UK! Very hard decision to make as there are many different factors involved.

Whatever decision you make it's going to be stressful for some or all members of the family. So, maybe you need to think about what would be best for your marriage as if DP ends up resentful that'll have a far bigger negative impact on your DCs than just changing country.

[TheHerdNerd]

DW and I are having a similar question - where is this coyly not-mentioned home country of yours?

[MerryMarigold]

From the way you speak about it, it sounds like you've made up your mind! For the UK. There doesn't seem much positive about Singapore. I moved around a lot as a child, and was a bit of a sensitive so-and-so, it hasn't done me any good to be honest, so i feel for your older ds.

[MizZan]

thank you everyone for all these helpful viewpoints. we've been talking a lot and I think what's coming out on my side is that I'm sick to death of moving around (have lived in 6 countries, 8 cities, and at least 20 different apartments/houses in the last 12 years), and I am already very sad to be leaving my home country (we'd originally planned to stay here long term) and so am feeling I could cope a lot better by at least going somewhere I have some good friends, and a good and interesting job with a company I know, and a school (and nursery) for the dcs which I know is excellent.

I'm worried that if we go to Sing. not only will older DS be completely stressed, but I will be too, and won't be able to create that kind of happy home life everyone cites as being so important. I've had bad depression before (after moving countries and starting a new job and having dc1 all in the space of about 4 months) and I know it's not something you can just wish away.

what's coming out on dh's side is that he is inevitably going to be very unhappy to miss this opportunity. He is unbothered by moving again, though I think that is in part because he will not have to deal with the kids or the making of friends or the schools or then finding freelance work - he just goes in to work, at a nice job with people he knows, and then comes home (I'm not bitter, really - this is just how it is. He will go to the UK if I put my foot down about it, but of course I don't want to do that since I can see how unhappy it will make him. The UK holds advantages for everyone in the family but him, basically.

the timeframe for Singapore would be 4 years. If it were one or two I would be more ok with it. 4 just seems like a long time and I know it will be a big wrench for dc1 to leave after that. Also, I am not sure where we'd go back to, after the time in Singapore. It just feels like an awful lot of uncertainty.

we can't really discuss this with my older dc. he is only 6 and therefore isn't really going to be able to offer a rational viewpoint, and I think we both know his first choice would be to stay here and second choice to return to the UK. He is going to be freaked out that we're leaving already - he's not ready to be involved in this kind of decision, he gets too upset about it all.

HerdNerd, I would be interested to hear more about your dilemma. We have really never faced this kind of a crisis before - I would say we have a strong marriage, and have come through a lot of moves and changes, but this is really the first one where I feel like it's kind of him-or-me. We live in the US now - didn't want to say so since I didn't want to out myself, but never mind - it doesn't much matter I suppose.

[LittleMissTickles]

MizZan, I don't really want to go into my own whole long story either, but can tell you that we have been struggling with a similar problem these past few months. My eldest is nearly 5 and very sensitive, and really struggled with her 2 moves so far, and there is another one coming. (By the way, can recommend this book 'Parenting the Highly Sensitive Child)

Ironically, my DH and I both really enjoy moving and new cultures etc, BUT having seen her(DD1) struggle so desperately with each move, and knowing her character now, we have decided that we really need to stop moving, at least until she is finished with school. I just get the feeling with her that we would really be causing damage to her little spirit by all the uprooting every few years. My youngest, however, would be fine to move every 6 months, so it really does vary hugely from child to child.

I don't think there is ever a 'right' answer that suits everyone, but mayby your DH needs to 'take this one for the team', so to speak?

[LittleMissTickles]

I didn't even get to what I really wanted to say ! In our discussions regarding our next move (we were not in agreement as to which country it should be to) we experienced our first major disagreement in 12 years together, 8 married. Many minors have come and gone, of course, but this was the first big one, something neither of us really felt able to compromise on easily, and it was a huge huge strain. In the end, my DH got his way, but it took me weeks to work through it in my head, and he regularly asked me whether I was angry with him. Each time I said just give me time, I am getting there, but not quite there yet. And the acceptance and peace with the joint decision did come after a few weeks/months. It would for your DH too, I am sure Good luck!

[nooka]

I think that you need to stop thinking about you vs him as it were, and try and take a rational view of the pros and cons of each choice for the family. Could you try listing them out together maybe, and agree to together make the decision? That way you can get beyond the emotional "I don't want to" vs "you are holding me back" argument. Try looking it from a one year/five year point of view maybe too. If your dh thinks you are all over the place try saying that whatever you decide (together) will be the final decision, with no more changing of minds.

We have just moved to the States mainly because dh decided that he'd have a better life here after a few bad years (including two when we were seperated). Initially he wanted to emigrate and then have the kids come out, and then when we decided to make a go of things again part of the deal was to make the move together. It's probably not something I would have chosen to do (I have a good career and close family in England and the children were settled and happy) but once I'd made that conscious decision that it was what I wanted to do then it has helped with all the times I've felt upside down with coping here (only two months in though!).

It is tough on children having lots of change, but most are fairly resilient, I think it is more difficult for adults, and the most difficult for non-working adults. I can see that your dh is torn between interesting job vs boring one with big commute, but then I can also see that the move to Singapore means career sacrifices for you too. However do you have to move back to the same town in England? Does your dh have no option but to return to a boring job? Is this Singapore offer a once in a lifetime opportunity?

I guess I'm saying is this really an either or situation, or are there alternatives. I think you should be wary about focusing on the money aspect unless you can see what it will deliver you, after all if you are miserable that is going to have a bigger knock on effect on your future than anythig else.

[MizZan]

thank you all again for the kind words and good advice. After many long nights of discussing it and reviewing plans, we have decided to move back to the UK so as to try to minimise the already pretty severe disruption to our family of moving country for the second time in 12 months. It's been the most traumatic decision process I think we've ever gone through but I think dh and I are both ok with it, and I'm feeling very relieved that I can temper the sadness of leaving my own home country again by returning to a place where at least we have some solid ties of friendship and some familiar faces and places to look forward to seeing again. It's going to be a big wrench for all of us, but at least it has the potential to be a longer-term move and I think that's probably what we need, though it is scary in some ways to both DH and me, who have not managed to settle in one location in the 13 years we've been together...

[manyhands]

I think you've made the right decision. My son never coped well with change and seeing how he flourished when we settled back in England has made it all worth while.