Any MNers in Switzerland?

[cheminotte]

What is it like as an expat? What is childcare / school provision like? DP has seen a job in Geneva.

[SuisseRomandeMaman]

We are very happy here (Canton Vaud, next door to Geneve). The expat community is big. Childcare is expensive and i have been told been difficult to get, but to be honest we have never struggled.

Kids start school aged 4/5. The will only attend 4 mornings a week and 1 afternoon for the first year, 5 mornings and 3 afternoons for the second year. Every kid takes wednesday afternoon off. All kids come home every lunchtime for approx 2 hours. (Nb. This may vary Canton to Kanton but is roughly the same principle).

Private schooling is different, they tend to take kids all day.

If you want to work you will probably need a nanny or au pair. Nannys cost a fortune (ours was pretty average at 30.- an hour (£22). Our cleaner charges 35.- an hour (£25). It is an expensive place to live. Health insurance is mandatory, our family spends approx £600 per month, but we pay the first 2000.- annually per adult of any claim. So not cheap (never knew how lucky we were with the NHS in UK).

Expat life is IMHO pretty good. Most expats Mums are forced into being SAHMs but it is not impossible to work if you have the right job that makes it financially viable. This morning DCs and i were skiing, this afternoon we had a playdate (yes the slopes are that close!). In the summer the lake is beautiful, lots of open air pools, lots to do. The local wine is amazing, so good they don't export it.

[cheminotte]

Thanks for replying. That is seriously expensive! How did you end up there? How old were your DC when you moved \ now?
Would love to be able to go skiing \ walking / swimming outdoors as a regular local activity rather than very occasionally.

[SuisseRomandeMaman]

DD was 1 when we moved for DH's job.

[MmeLindor]

Not in Geneva anymore, but lived there for around 4 years.

I agree that it is a good place to live, if the conditions are right. Don't go there thinking that a good UK salary will be enough. Would the company pay relocation and housing costs?

Housing costs are high (although I think not quite as difficult to find someplace as it was when we were there). Any services, like SuisseRomandeMama said, cost a fortune.

Our kids were 4y and 6y when we moved out, and loved it there. They went to local schools, but there are also lots of English speaking schools.

[Pippidoeswhatshewants]

We were near Lausanne for 3 years. Beautiful, and very expensive.
Dh got transferred to the London office, he earns a bit less here but we are a lot better off.
I miss the lake, the mountains, the air, ...

Have you discovered //englishforum.ch? You can get an idea of rent prices on //comparis.ch

[MmeLindor]

I miss the mountains and the lake too, Pippi.

The exchange rate must be a killer at the moment.

Definitely worth looking at living in France, and travelling into town.

[Pippidoeswhatshewants]

Did some reminiscing with dh this morning about the amazing sunsets over the Alps, seeing Mont Blanc when walking out of Carrefour and the 25 minute drive to the skiing resort... I think I am ready for another expat round!

[SuisseRomandeMaman]

Yep Pippidoeswhatshewants loving the 25 min drive to the ski resorts. We have so much snow right now the resorts are fab

[LIZS]

We miss the mountains, but days out do cost £££

[MmeLindor]

We were on the other side of the lake, so only saw the Alps then we were out and about. Was always a thrill.

[cheminotte]

Thanks MmeLindor , Pippi and LIZS . Dp hasn't actually applied for the job yet so very early days. He texted yesterday to say houses cost 1m. Do many people buy or is renting more common? Living in France is a good idea though would need to understand how the schools differ. I can't imagine moving from somewhere so beautiful to London, Pippi - we really want to move abroad but our criteria includes lots of outdoor activities so we're quite limited. It would mean me leaving my job and risking not finding another one or at least not working for a while to help dc settle in, so there needs to be a good payoff. Would want the dc to go to local schools too.

[Pippidoeswhatshewants]

Switzerland is definitely the place to be if you want outdoor activities! Shops are closed on Sundays, so there isn't much else to do.

My children went to the local school, they were very good at integrating them and they got some extra French lessons. How good is your French, cheminotte?

[cheminotte]

Shops closed on Sundays is fine by me. I'm fluent in French, though written is a bit rusty..Also speak German.

[heather1]

Renting is much more common in ch. I think people do live in France, there are tax and schooling implications. English forum.ch has a lot of thread on it.
Taxes also vary from town to town so take that into account when looking for somewhere to rent. Homegate.ch and comparis.ch are good places to start. Having a relocation package where an agent will help you to find a place, translate the contract can also be very helpful.

[Pippidoeswhatshewants]

I miss the shopping free Sundays!

Renting is normal, and pretty expensive. You will also have to consider apartments rather than houses, unlike in the UK apartment living is normal. And fine. Rents are high (in line with the 1m house prices...!), but considerably lower if you live a bit further afield or in France.

You need to really look at your budget. Every salary will look ok on paper, until you factor in the rent, health insurance, tax and shopping. Food is very expensive, too. We made frequent shopping trips to France and rarely went out for meals.

[MmeLindor]

German won't get you anywhere in Geneva! We thought it would help (DH is German) but they are quite resistant to speaking German. They'd rather speak English.

Don't buy a house. Don't even consider it. We had neighbours who moved from UK, bought a house and have lost a LOT of money, due to the exchange rate fall. Europeans generally rent, unless they are planning to live there for a very long time.

Renting is totally normal. To give you an idea of prices, we had a 4 bed house with office, huge garden, and cellar (complete with nuclear bunker!), that cost CHF 4000/month. That was outside the city. You can get slightly cheaper, but I'd reckon with around min CHF 3000 for something reasonably nice.

[cheminotte]

Thank MmeLindo yes I had assumed German would be a bit useful. Will be a bit of a mental shift to rent rather than buy, having had 30+ years of house ownership being so important drilled into me and DP.
Will have a look at those websites.

[SuisseRomandeMaman]

I wouldn't discount buying. You will get more for your money. We are paying twice in rent what our landlord pays in mortgage. The CHF was v. strong V the £ a few weeks ago but is down a bit more now. Swiss property doesn't rise or fall too quickly in value so it isn't a huge investment in the short term. It you are looking to rent a house you may well be expected to maintain the house. So we have to repaint, pay half the cost of blinds replacement, pay for the garden to be done by a professional etc. Unlike our house in London where we have to send our handyman round when a screw falls out a kitchen cabinet hinge.

[heather1]

If you buy a place but sell before 5 years the tax is 100%. I would re comment a flat near or overlooking a communal garden/playarea. That way your children should have a good selection of local friends to play with. Houses are great as it is just like the Uk set up but I quickly learnt that isn't how is works in ch. Most children go out to play, as we used to many years ago, in big groups with out adult supervision. They make nice local friends and then this transfers to friends to walk to school with and play with in the holidays. This is less likely to happen IMO if you have a house ( and we have tried both.) You might make friends with some of the Mums too.

[usuallydormant]

Look at seloger.fr for rentals and sales in France (pay de gex, haute savoie). Living in France is considerably cheaper, although the commute can be a pain and gets longer each year. Pays de Gex is very expat-y, HS much less so. Childcare also less expensive (450e a month for child minder) and the start school at 3yrs. It is very much playschool but a full day, till 4.30.

Where we are (about 30k fron GVA), there are handfuls of English speakers everywhere but for the most part life is in French. Most anglophones I know work in Geneva or the ski resorts but it's the EU so setting up from home v straightforward, if you have the possibility of freelancing. Social charges are v high, but public services generally excellent.

School system is very different to UK I believe but so far we've had a very positive experience (kids are 4&7, born in France). They go to the local village school.

It is very sporty here, winter sports obviously but I love the summer most. Beautiful alpine lakes for swimming, paddle boarding, sailing. Mountain biking is huge as is road cycling and of course hiking, climbing, trail running... It is a truly beautiful part of the world.

[cheminotte]

Thanks for the French tips dormant . I would not want us both to be commuting across the border, what is the closest French town / city?

[MmeLindor]

Closest place will depend on where your DP works - you have to work and live on the same side of the lake, cause the traffic across town is just awful. We were on the Rive Gauche, and had friends in Annemasse, Douvaine, Ville le Grande. Was quite far into town though!