If you OR your children have been immersed into a foreign school.

[morethanclueless]

My DCs have started in a French, provincial school (7yrs: CE1, 5 years: CP and 4 years: MS). They are the only foreign kids that I'm aware of and they do not speak any French. They have been amazingly brave and do not complain about school, but I know it is hard for them. They don't comment, but I can tell that they are lonely and that they are finding it all a bit of culture shock. Their UK State school was pretty easy going/creative whereas the French system, as I know from having taught in a French school some years ago, is far more 'rigid' and strict (I heard my elder daughter's teacher, whilst the class was in the playground, ticking off some pupils. Wow - she really shouted!)

Anyhow, in a long-winded way, I am asking for some positive stories. Please tell me that they will start speaking the language in time and that they will feel part of it all.

I speak a few languages, a couple (French is one) to a high standard though by no means fluent. I am NOT anticipating fluency on their part for quite some time, but just want some reassurance that it will be OK and they are not going to feel 'lost' forever. In your experience, when did you/your kids start speaking the new language/integrating? Should I get a tutor or does it just sink in, somehow?!

Thanks!

[fussychica]

I felt your pain about 10 years ago - it can be a worrying time but at their age they should be fine. DS went to a very good school in the UK before we moved and we were concerned that the move might have a detrimental affect on his education. We needn't have worried.

DS was educated in Spain at fairly rural state schools from 10-18. It took him about 3 months to start getting the hang of it, 6 months to feel relatively confident and the academic year to be totally immersed. Our timing worked well as he moved up to secondary school without problem and passed the Spanish equiv of GCSEs and A levels and is now back in the UK in the final year of his degree. The A level equiv. curriculum included French, Greek and Latin (which he had to do through Spanish rather than English ) and he coped well - infact his degree is Spanish, French & German.

Since he was about 12 people hearing him speak without seeing him assume it's a Spaniard talking, no greater compliment. His amazing blue eyes and pale complexion give him away.

Hang in there - there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Hope that helps.

[morethanclueless]

Thank you for your reply and telling me about your son's positive experience.

I knew this was going to be hard and we had prepared the kids as best we could. However, preparing for something and then living the reality can still be a shock - a bit like confronting (as opposed to imagining) broken nights when your first newborn finally arrives! To add to the mix, my eldest is also off sick today with a chest infection and temperature. Not the best of times for her.

Where we are today (week 4!) I cannot imagine them speaking French, and as a consequence I also cannot imagine them getting the most out of schools and friendships. I just don't understand how their brain can go from zero comprehension to fluency. From doing a little research, other people do tend to suggest the same 3/6/12 month time-frame for language acquisition as your son had experienced. It must be amazing to see it coming together.

Did you already speak Spanish? Did you use a tutor?

[ElizabethMedora]

A nice book for you to read to your 7 year old might be "When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit" by Judith Kerr. It's about Anna and her family having to leave Berlin and their refugee experiences in Switzerland and France - it is the bit about French school & living in Paris that might be nice for your DC to hear.

[fussychica]

No he couldn't speak any Spanish at all when we arrived (and neither could we) although he did have a copy of 100 Spanish words or similar and we stuck post-its on every item in the house. Not sure much of that worked for him but it helped me get by. My husband can now speak it quite well but I'm still rubbish despite being ok on vocab. but we are now back in UK so only use it for a few months every year.

People thought we were pretty mean when we took him to the bus stop and he got on the bus on the first day, then that was it he went alone every day but I think it helped. I know it wasn't easy for him to make friends and he was an outsider but he gradually worked his way into the mix - first with the other children at the bus stop, then those in his class etc. He never complained and seemed to like it more than the UK school actually, maybe because it was quite relaxed. However, if you fail exams in Spain you are kept back so he knew he needed to try a bit harder than usual not to get left behind.

We never used a tutor for Spanish but did for English IGCSE for a year at 16 as I felt it was really important he could still operate to the highest level in his native language which he wasn't using on a daily basis at school - he really enjoyed it and he got an A* so it worked. I think Spanish tutoring on top of a day at school operating totally in Spanish wouldn't have worked for him. He's extremely bright but only does what he needs to get by so

I hope your eldest is feeling better and that things start to fall into place. Don't beat yourself up about it. Generally children this young are very resilient and open to new experiences so I'm sure it will all come together. In the meantime you are in the right place for a . Any other questions let me know.

[BertieBotts]

Hi, I have a DS about to turn 6, we moved to Germany a year ago. He went into kindergarten here and got on just fine. I remember worrying at about 4 months that his german seemed to be just single words but then all of a sudden one day it was suddenly sentences and now he speaks quite well although I don't know that he is fluent.

It can be hard to tell their level because of course they only speak english with you, but he will stop and chat to old ladies and watching him switch effortlessly from english to German when at the park with a mixed group it quite exciting!

We have decided not to send him to school until next year, as you can choose here, but I think he probably would have been ok in school, mainly homework I think would be hard.

Elizabeth, how funny you mentioned that book, it has been a favourite of mine for a long time and probably if I'm honest is what inspired me to want to move countries one day.

The main thing that we noticed with DS was tiredness when he first started speaking more german, so I tried to make sure he got plenty of sleep, and we had a huge behaviour regression when we moved too which calmed down with time.

I really think it's so valuable for them to be bilingual, definitely going to be useful to them in the future. I think english speaking nations in general are really behind in this.

[castlesintheair]

My DCs speak really good french after one year of immersion. They have had no extra help/tutoring and there have never been any non-French speakers in their schools before. Their french is good enough to not need any help with homework now which is just great for me

I think we have spoken before, I recognise your username. Sorry it really is tough to begin with but it will be worse for you if that's any consolation. You are all going through a culture shock. The French education system takes a while to get used to but there are many good things about it.

Your DCs may be quiet but they are going through the "listening" phase. This lasts between 6-12 months normally. Both my girls (CE1 and CM1 last year) were very quiet for about 6 months. After about 3 months though my youngest was agonising because she was starting to wonder if she preferred her new french friends to her old English classmates!! My DS wasn't quiet at all as he went straight to 6eme and really had to get on with it. He's probably not far off fluent now and is doing amazingly well.

Give it time. I hear my girls talking to each other in french sometimes now. I could not have imagined that this time last year.

[morethanclueless]

Thanks everyone!

I've heard of "When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit" but I have never actually read it. I will definitely get a copy to read to my DD1.

Fussychica - when you talked about leaving your son at the bus stop, that reminded me of DD1's first day at school here. There was a class list posted outside the school with a class room number. That was it. We had no idea where the classroom was and there didn't seem to be anybody to ask/to assist so I just suggested she followed others who seemed to see their name on the same class list too. As it was the first day at school after the Summer holidays, it was total chaos! I could have cried as I watched her, with her hugely heavy school-bag on her back as she walked alone into the expanse of the school. She just got on with it which made me incredibly proud but I just knew that she was terrified. I have four kids - my youngest is in a sweet creche - and it is honestly a week that I hope never to repeat! Everyone was very brave, but fraught with inner-stress. There were tears too - sometimes mine when I got home and could have a little weep in private!

Castles - Hello! Yes, you were very helpful when I PM'd you. So pleased to hear that your kids have become comfortable in their new life and have learnt the language. It must be amazing to see them now, chatting away in French. I very much look forward to that too for my kids, particularly when they start school again next year and when they will hopefully be part of the community.

[castlesintheair]

One other thing to consider is putting them in private schools if they are not already? There's little choice where we are but the ecole/college privees are definitely the best of a bad bunch!

[morethanclueless]

I must admit, I had a bit of a knee-jerk moment during the first fortnight and started thinking that maybe we should go private (we didn't in the UK!). I thought, without any actual knowledge, that their pastoral support might be better. Again, I have no basis for thinking that other than the fact that UK private schools at primary level tend to have the resources to support children in these sorts of situations. We are not religious either and although I know that we don't have to be Catholic to go to a local Catholic primary, I imagine that much of the socialising is done within the Church - i.e. Sunday church, and therefore we may find it even more difficult to integrate.

I think it is a time issue and there is nothing that I can do about that. Yes, the school ethos is vastly different to the system we are used to in the UK, but we came with eyes open and on an individual basis the teachers, in general, seem kind (if a little bemused by us) and the other kids seem to be lovely too. It's just the system - the lack of communication and lack of transparency, plus the one-size-fits-all focus that is the cultural shift that we need to be make (I say 'we' but I probably mean 'me'! Yes, my kids are aware that things are different but naturally they are at an age where they don't question it). I feel we need to give this school a go and to allow the kids to settle and acquire the language. I also need to realise that they just cannot do all of the homework - my eldest is in CE1 and has 150 spellings this week and often homework each night too. It's such a balancing act - I don't want the kids to drown in a language that they simply do not understand at the moment, but at the same time I don't want the teachers to think that we are not supporting their efforts and ignoring the homework. I don't feel that my daughter's teacher is very approachable either - there was a lot of chat at the 'reunion des parents' last week about 'redoublement' and maybe we just feel insecure, but I could not help feeling that the threat to repeat the year was directed at us!

[velourvoyageur]

I was put in an English school about a month after arriving in England when I was 4, and five months later I was reading in English fluently (don't think I'd been able to read in my first language beforehand). To be honest for I think a month of that I was quite ill so spent loads of time in bed surrounded by books! So I guess immersion is key. I also had a one to one aide to help me in the classroom for a few months which obviously helped loads, anyone would make progress with that kind of help.

A year later I was refusing to speak my other languages, just English, so you might find you have problems of a different kind later

I do remember making up my own garbled sentences in my room by myself and pretending it was English when we first arrived. I was really really keen to not stick out as the foreign one so was very motivated.

The bit about the school bag made me smile- I babysit a little girl here in France and her school bag is huuuuge and half the size of her, it's mad!

[castlesintheair]

I weighed my son's rucksack the other day and it was 15kgs!

Morethanclueless, I am sure things will work out for you all: you just have to give it time as you have said. Be aware though that private schools in France are very different to the UK. Apart from the enormous difference in fees, the private schools here are really just state schools in a building owned by the church with a slightly more selective (fee paying) student body. They follow the same curriculum. The teachers are paid by the state. Pastorally it's probably better, depending on where you are of course. It certainly doesn't revolve around "the church", not here anyway!

[BreezefromtheWest]

My DC went into the local system in French speaking Switzerland and it took years to become fluent. I kept thinking that there must be something wrong with them because everybody told me that they will be speaking fluently within months but it never happened! I would honestly say it took 4 years to get to the stage where homework was done on their own without help, marks for French became good or very good and maths problems were understood. Now it is much easier but it was a convoluted path and I did regret moving here.

The best thing we did after four years (!) was to get a high school student to supervise homework and help with tricky grammar and spellings, homophones etc. That was the best thing ever so if you can, find a patient student who can read to them and just help with homework. It should be fairly easy as they appreciate the money.

[meerkate]

hi OP, my brother and I were chucked into French-speaking school aged 5 and 3 - it was certainly a difficult time for some weeks BUT we really were speaking fluently within a few short months - sink or swim! It wasn't at all a touchy-feely experience, as you have already observed the atmosphere is quite different from our more laid-back Anglo-saxon schools!

Having said that, in a short time we adapted, made friends and thrived. I am sure that we were lucky, and I note from the above comments that it doesn't always happen that fast, but for us it did, for whatever reason - so don't despair, even if it seems hard to believe right now!

We were very much encouraged to read in English at home and always spoke it with my parents, so when the time came to switch back to English at a later stage in our education we had no problems - and of course have had the major bonus of being fluent in French for the rest of our lives. GOOD LUCK!

[morethanclueless]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply. I think things are a little more uncomfortable as my eldest has been off for most of the week with bronchitis (now on antibiotics) and so it's been a bit more unsettled than perhaps it would have been. On top of that, her teacher didn't start until the third week and so she had supply teachers every week at the start so I'm not sure she knows if she is coming or going.

Castles - good point about the French private schools. I do look wistfully at our local Catholic school, thinking that perhaps it might be better (who knows?) but I just don't feel brave enough to go down that route as I'm not sure I could uproot the kids again in such a short-timeframe. It's all making my head spin!

And yes, I think that the installation of lockers in the school would be beneficial - the bags they lug about are just too heavy!

[IdealistAndProudOfIt]

I have a dd, now 4, in a nederlands school in Belgium. She started at 2.5 and yes it was hard for her at first. She did enjoy going, thank god, but you could see she didn't know what was going on very much - she didn't finish craft work compared to peers and struggled with dances and so on. She is now getting on very well with the language. A year seems to do the trick. Another thing that seemed to help was, we chucked out the rule you see on the internet about keeping the language environments separate - we started trying to read books in nederlands and so on. We don't speak nederlands ourselves apart from a few words so you'd have an advantage there!

I have a ds due to start next year who doesn't talk much of anything yet (at 2yr 2 month) so watch this space...

[morethanclueless]

Thank you everyone for your input. Today is the start of a new week, so it's a case of onwards and upwards! My eldest is back at school today so with a bit of luck things will calm down a bit and we can get accustomed to things.

[alteredimages]

Good luck morethan. I think I posted on another thread of yours: my DD went to PS in Paris last year with no French. She loved it and was speaking in sentences by Christmas, French was good by Easter. She was able to play with other kids even without language, and a lot of them became quite protective of her. Her company was also coveted by the other mums who wanted their kids to speak English!

It may be a bit harder outside the capital but they will find their own way. Also, it is good that your kids are still quite young. DD is now at a Lycee Francais abroad and the MS teacher impressed the importance of gaining a foundation before CE2 when the workload steps up and kids can be left behind. Bon courage!

[svalencia]

we are many years on from you, but our children went straight into the local école/collège, they were older than yours but picked up the language sufficiently well to get good marks in their school exams. It is hard at first but we always found the staff and other students very helpful.

[castlesintheair]

Good luck morethan. If you are on FB there are some very nice groups for parents/mums in France. PM me if you want details. You will also get lots of support on here if you feel wobbly. In the meantime, it's only 3 weeks until half term!