Relocating with child out of UK

[nialopes]

Hello,

I would like to relocate with my 9 years old daughter from the UK to Brazil. I divorced her father in January 2009 and since then she has had no contact with him for almost 6 years now. No financial support or contact of any sort. I remarried in 2011 and my daughter has build a strong relationship with her step dad. We are a very happy family and she considers him her father as she doesn't really know or remember her birth father. I don't know where he lives but heard from his dad that he has remarried and has another family. He has never bee interested in my daughter's life.
We have decided that we want to relocate to Brazil as my husband is Brazilian. By the way I have full custody of my daughter and am allowed to travel with her up to 28 days without consent from her birth father. My question is since we have had no contact with him and don't really know his whereabouts and I was to just move there do I need to go to court to apply for permission. I have had some legal advice and lawyer said that unless he goes looking for us then nobody would question me.
Any advice would be appreciated

Thanks

[NigellasDealer]

it would only be a problem if he was bothered AFAIK, nonetheless I believe you would be breaking the law

[rootypig]

Interesting question. I'm not a lawyer, so please don't take any of my advice as legal. Perhaps a family lawyer will be along soon. But here are my thoughts:

Hague Convention says that removal or retention away from habitual residence is unlawful "when in breach of rights or custody...under the law of the State in which the child was habitually resident immediately before the removal or retention".

You have full custody, but it sounds as though he has parental responsibility / there is a legal agreement in place? What is the source of the rule that you are able to travel with her for 28 days without consent?

That said, if the parent is not exercising their custody / parental rights, it seems that can be a defence. It also seems that if proceedings aren't brought within a year of the removal, that can be a defence (to having the child returned).

If there really has been NO contact for 6 years, absolutely none, I would have thought you were in a strong position.

[nialopes]

Thank you for your reply. I also think about her school and whether I need to tell them if we are relocating. I just think why go through court and pay solicitors when even if I move he wouldn't even know that I'm not in the country as he has no contact with us doznt even know if we are alive.

[nialopes]

Roots pig thank you for your message!
We divorced in court. I had a solicitor he didn't. He had the opportunity to ask for contact and he didn't. The judge granted me full custody and on the paperwork it says that I am allowed to travel anywhere with her for up to 28 days without his consent. My solicitor also confirmed that. Are you saying that if I was to move and he doesn't search for her within a year then I should have no problems. Also I'm thinking what happens if I decide to travel back to Europe one day for holiday would I be questioned on airports?

[nialopes]

There are lo legal agreements or contact order as he never applied for one! He has been absent for 6 years pays no child maintenance nothing.

[titchy]

Yeah great idea. Till you try and enter Brazil, or the US, or come back to the UK and have no paperwork showing consent or a court agreement and you get charged with abduction. Go for it.... Seriously just go to court.

[rootypig]

I'm definitely NOT saying you would have no problems. I see your reasoning, and agree that it seems that he probably wouldn't even know, but the stakes are high. The Hague Convention is serious and proceedings brought under it by their nature bloody traumatic.

What do you think he will say if you contact him to ask for his consent? I don't see why you would need to go through the court for this (check with a family solicitor) - you just need his consent.

[YouSayBelloISayPoppaye]

babybarrister If she wrote her own consent letter and he never found out how would she get in trouble?

Just wondering btw NOT advising you to do it!

[rootypig]

YouSay sure, getting found out is the key part of the law. If she doesn't get found out, then she won't get into trouble. Big if, when you're talking about child abduction.

And if she 'wrote her own consent letter' on his behalf, fraud, presumably.

[YouSayBelloISayPoppaye]

Root

If the man never looked or wanted to be actively involved in his kids life than he'd never know and presumably never get caught.

I was asking B.B in case she knew whether the letter had to be witnessed, phone number etc

[MaitlandGirl]

When we moved to Australia I had to track down my ex and get him to sign a letter (in front of a solicitor who also signed as a witness) confirming he was happy for me to move overseas with the kids.

Without that letter I couldn't get a visa unless I went to court to get their permission.

[titchy]

Yousay - unless she plans to smuggle the child in a suitcase they will be potentially questioned at every border control they go through, visa they apply for etc.

[rootypig]

Of course, visas. Our relocation issues involve two countries DD is a citizen of, so it hadn't occurred to me. I suspect you have your answer, OP. Look him up. It sounds as though you're still in touch with his dad, it shouldn't be difficult.

[STIDW]

Listen to babybarrister. It's the criminal offence of child abduction to take the children abroad permanently without the consent of all those with Parental Responsibility for the child or permission from the court. So you need to make all reasonable attempts to trace the father and obtain his consent. If you don't get the consent then you would need to apply to court for permission.

Under the circumstances you describe there is every possibility the court would grant permission, and by providing evidence that you have tried to find your ex and sought his consent will show you have been reasonable.

If you go to Brazil without the appropriate consent/permission there is a risk the authorities will return the children to the jurisdiction of the courts in the UK. If that happens the fact you have acted unlawfully won't help your case.

[nialopes]

Thank you all for your replies! I have just spoken with the father of my ex who seems to think that he would be willing to give up parental responsibility! Can he just give up his parental rights? Surely if he does that means we would be free to go? If anyone is a solicitor on here can you advise on what papers my ex needs to sign to hive up his parental responsibility?

[nialopes]

Getting it witnessed would be difficult as I don't know where he lives and I haven't seen him in 5 years. Who needs to witness it? Do I need to be present? His dad knows where he is. I have to ask him for consent to relocate to Brazil or another way is for him to give consent to my husband to adopt my daughter. That way he will no longer have responsibility for her.

[YouSayBelloISayPoppaye]

nialopes - if he gives consent for your DH to adopt he will STILL have PR you'll still have to get his consent

[YouSayBelloISayPoppaye]

My apologises was thinking of something else

[nialopes]

Solicitor told me that if he allows my husband to adopt her then he automatically looses parental responsibility as he is giving it to my husband. My husband then becomes her dad

[YouSayBelloISayPoppaye]

Nialopes Yeah that's correct read it as him giving your DH PR and totally blanked the adoption! I hope he does that for you but I heard it could take a while.