help please, in legal matter with reference

[mumblecrumble]

Hi there,

I was made redundant from a teaching position in a college in May. I volunteered to teach AS and A level students up untill and after their exams so left in July.

I have applied for agency (supply) work and interveiws all went really well. I was offered positions on condition of references and CRB.

Long story short: Been rejected from one becuase of reference. Have confirmed over the phone by agent and head or HR at college that this is because my line manager has stated I am 'unreliable' on the referece.

I don;t feel I am unreliable and I certainly have never had aany feedback from work (7 years in that position - in charge of budget, the course, exam entries, coursework and extra cuuricular events etc)

ANyway, I appear to be spending ouir summer holidays fighting this and need help witht eh following:

Can you confirm what ACAS have said that this is outside employment law and is to do with common law of slander?

How would you define a reliable / unreliable teacher?

If I was made redundant, which is 'no fault dismissal' (as my lovely job centre lady puts it), I have no disciplinary stuff in my personel file and did my job as required etc, is it 'fair' to be giving a reference which has proved itself to prevent future emplyment?


What the crap can I do? I am meeting with line manager and HR guy next Monday.

I also got an emal this eve that another supply agency who lost their copies of my ID documents and asked me to 'pop by' last week to re do them in their nearest office to be which is 35 miles away.... who I have chased up and waitted for them to call me back when promised and they haven;t.... who told me only last week they hadnlt received a reference from college that I xchased up for them in between waaaaiting for them to call back. I looked onm my 'buisness' email address to see if they had finallt sentt the forms they were suppose to send months ago and... Tehy have'decided to shut down my file due to the lack of information we have received. This decision is final".




WIll i ever teach again? Will I ever be able to work with this new label of 'unreliable'. WIll I get any more sleep ith this going round and round.

Your help would be appreciated. I am devastated.

[prh47bridge]

If the reference is written it would be libel rather than slander. Slander would apply to a verbal reference. Either way, references have some protection in law which makes it difficult to prosecute - basically you have to show that the line manager gave the reference out of malice rather than giving his genuine opinion.

Having said that, I would tell them that if the reference is repeated you will take legal advice. You may find the line manager has breached the college's policy in giving this reference - many employers will only give factual references in order to avoid problems.

[unadulterateddad]

I would approach the college and speak direct to the HR dept - would agree with prh47bridge that it's likely your line manager has gone outside of policy. You may well be able to get another reference sorted.

[mumblecrumble]

Have a meeting with line manager and head of HR on monday. have also got legal advice sety up just in case.

The reference was for agency work which covers lots of different jobs so am so very cross. Nothing in my file and no disciplinaries etc. Average absence.

Sigh..... libel eh? Hmmmm. Lawyer has suggested I ask for evidence. I haven;t been observed or had profressional reveiw for 2 years.

[savoycabbage]

Have they given you a written reference?

I live in Australia and I have just started supply teaching here. I have no references because I haven't worked for 7 years and the school I worked at for the longest has closed down.

I have worked at other schools but it was do long ago they won't remember me. I have got some written references but I don't know where they are as I have moved so many times.

One of the agencies I approached wouldnt take me on but the other one did after meeting me. I have forms to give the schools to fill in to assess me so I will be able to use those to give to the other agency if I need to.

[EldritchCleavage]

Needn't be libel- a carelessly inaccurate reference could be negligent misstatement.
You need to know what your employment record says.
You need to know what the line manager said, and if it is that you are unreliable, the basis for it: attendance record, time-keeping, performance, whatever.
YOu frankly can't be that bad to them if they haven't bothered to review or reprimand you in years. Good luck.

[mumblecrumble]

I don;t think I am that bad. My students have not thought so and I have good relationships with parents and collegues (I thought - doubting everything now!)

I have meeting with line manager and head of HR. I have taken legal advice, just as a back up and so I feel i know what I am talking about. Meeting on Monday. This is not doing my Anxiety dissorder any good... though in someways I am glad I am prepared for anxiety if that makes sense. Totally immersed in it - my guts have gone rotten, my brain is fuzz and I am exhausted (bit depressed?). However i have been doing what I ened to do when like this: not pushing myself too much in hte moirning [silver lining of redundancy?], taking beta blockers which really help with physical symptoms and trying to keep eating. Depsite being over weight my appetite completely dissapears.

I think i feel very betrayed by a 6tth form I gave a lot of time, effort and work too. As weoll as fearful for the future etc.

God, I would love it if I tunred up on monday and they apologised, not realising the massiveness of their written words and all could go back to normal....

Except I have missed out on several jobs for Sept in the mean time.....

Attendance - I have had more absnece this year due to having [proper] flu, chest infection but no more than 9 or 10 days. National avergae for teachers is 14

Time keeping - I would say good. In 7 years i was late once due to massive accident holding up traffic. I was 5 mins late.

performance - tricky becuase how do you measure that? Results? 70% of my students enter 6th form without appropaite skills and qualifications for A levle music. This year 4 out of 10 did not read music........ This has always been acknowledhed by mannagement for most of the year... except enrolment day and results day. I spend the year giving many extra unpaid hours to try and ctach these kids up as well as getting the few who are higher up stretched and challenged etc.

Usually the kids unqualified get Es or Ds and get onto their next course so I am pleased - managment are not obviously.

Basically the grade they are assessed as managing at the begginign of the year they usually get BUT grades as seen as very low. We just don;t have enough students with skills. Most of our local schools don;t do GCSE music for example.

Hence redundancy really.

I usually get good/very good/outstanding for lesson obs, including a good ofsted.

Am writing this mainly to convince myself...

[EldritchCleavage]

Well,
when you go in to see them, please don't fall into the trap of justifying yourself. Ascertain whether the 'unreliable' thing has been said, and whether they stand by it. Then press them to stand it up, with specific examples and records. it's not up to you to prove, ex post facto, that you are reliable. It is for them to show there is a sufficient factual basis for saying you aren't.