CRB check and teaching

[MrsToad]

Hi, I don't know if this is the right area, apologies if not.

My daughter is currently applying to university for courses leading into her being an English teacher. The problem is that while living abroad a few years ago, when she was 14, she stole something from a shop. I made her take it back and apologise, which she did. Unfortunately the shop owner decided to press charges and she was subsequently convicted and had to do community service.

This was a one off act of stupidity, but does it mean she's blocked from teaching for life?

[nellyjelly]

Google rehab of offenders act. It occured in a different country? Which one? Also she was 14 so a 'youth' in legal terms. All relevant. Can't be sure but she won't be blocked from teaching afaik. Will have to declare it of course.

[MrsToad]

It was in Germany, so she was only just over the age of responsibility. I've been worrying sick about it and feeling so guilty. I thought she'd get a stern telling off when I sent her back. I never thought she'd end up with a criminal record :(

[Putthatbookdown]

They will not be able to hold it against her as it is not a relevant offence Also as it happened so long ago and was a one-off it does not count either really I would be upfront about it
Mind you if she were to go abroad outside the eu she may not get a working visa to teach there

[Condover]

When she applies she will need to declare any convictions, which will be taken into account by the prospective employers, along with the rest of the information on her application (as for any other job), but it won't prohibit her from teaching as it's isn't an offence which suggests children will be at risk.

[ClaireBunting]

There's no reason why shoplifting should translate into a safeguarding problem.

It might be something that she has to disclose via a "sealed envelope", however.

[DoesBuggerAll]

She shouldn't mention it. It won't show up anyway. If it did then she can just say she forgot about it.

Making her return the stolen goods wasn't really a very good idea. Nasty shop owner though. A friend of mine stole from a shop when he was a similar age and felt so guilty about it that he went back next day with the item and confessed to the shop owner. Thankfully the man was a really nice guy and accepted his apology and shook my friends hand and congratulated him for having the courage and conscience to do as he did. I suppose that's what you thought might happen to DD.

[OhNoMyFanjo]

If she's just starting she could apply for a crb check now and see if it comes up.

[MrsToad]

Thanks everyone. I feel somewhat reassured.

[AllThreeWays]

An acquaintance assault a man in custody while she was a police officer. She works as a teacher, just declares it.

[prh47bridge]

OhNoMyFanjo - You cannot get a CRB check for yourself. Your application must be countersigned by the employer or voluntary organisation for whom you will be working.

MrsToad - I disagree with DoesBuggerAll. Your daughter is more likely to run into problems if she does not declare this conviction. I agree with others. She should declare the conviction. It will not prevent her working as a teacher.

[Catkinsthecatinthehat]

Find out first whether the German authorities will have alerted the UK authorities. Perhaps German juvenile convictions are sealed and spent if they are minor ones. While you can't CRB yourself, you can ask the police to reveal the information held on you.

While it's technically possible to work as a teacher as a convicted criminal, in a recession if faced with dozens of candidates with a clean record and a thief with a criminal record, employers won't touch her. Older teachers with a good work record may manage to convince employers to overlook an indiscretion, a teenager won't have that luxury.

There was a case in the media in 2008 about a teenager, Majid Ahmed, who had a conviction for burglary (he'd trespassed, not actually stolen anything) and who had his application to study medicine at Imperial withdrawn when the conviction came to light.

I know a couple of people with very minor teenage convictions (cannabis possession, vandalism) who still have had terrible problems in their late 30s passing enhanced CRBs and gaining employment, even in places such as leisure centres.

The UK situation is ridiculous, and if you can avoid declaring it if possible, it would be for the best.

[prh47bridge]

As someone with extensive experience of CRB checks I disagree completely.

You can ask the police what information they hold on you but they don't have to tell you.

Employers using CRB checks are required to have a clear policy on the recruitment of ex-offenders and must not unfairly discriminate against those with criminal records. If they fail to meet this requirement they can lose the right to use the CRB. And most leisure centre jobs are not eligible for CRB checks. Admin, maintenance, catering and cleaning staff are not eligible, for example. The employer is committing an offence if a CRB check is requested for a role for which it is not appropriate. Of course, there will always be some employers who fail to follow the rules but that does not mean the whole system is wrong.

By the way, the last post implies having something on a CRB check was a bar to gaining any employment. That is clearly untrue. Most employers are not allowed to get CRB checks at all.

I stand by my previous answer. With many employers the failure to disclose a conviction that appears on a CRB check will cause far more problems than disclosing a minor conviction. Apart from anything else, it raises questions as to what else the applicant has failed to disclose.

[Putthatbookdown]

It all goes in a sealed envelope and she can explain what happened Taking the goods back to the shop etc will all count in her favour In the end the employers want the right person for the job and this small thing is neither here nor there.
The Crb thing is just to protect children from unsavoury characters that is all

[BartletForAmerica]

[[http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/aug/07/medicine.students Majid Ahmed was (I think, rightly) given a place at Manchester University subsequently.)