Childrens father "not authorising holiday"

[twinkletoes12]

I plan to take two of my three children (ages 5 and 3) to disneyland paris for 5 days 4 nights in november. Little one is only 15 months old and will stay will my mum.
Holiday is all paid.
3 year old doesnt yet have a passport. My passport is in my maiden name.
Upon filling out the form I see I need dates of exs parents birth and marriage. Which I am sure I have, but not 100% sure. They arent speaking to me so I cannot ask them. (ex has fed them alot of lies inc me having a court order against them :s which i dnt) ex hasnt seen them since mid jan. I have refused access the one time he asked to see them due to his previous actions towards them and myself.
So I call him and ask if its possible for the info for the passport form, he says no and he wont allow me to take them out of the country either...
What do I do now?
So annoyed, I cant bare to tell DD she cant go, it will really tear her up. We have been watching videos on youtube for weeks.
I thought it would be fine to take the kids I gave birth to out of the country. Its not like I am not coming back, as I am leaving one at home!
Thank you in advance for any replies and advice xx

[AnyoneForTennis]

It's clear on the passport firm to put in what you know.... If you don't know, you put in a covering letter.

[twinkletoes12]

Apparently as he has Parental responsibility I can't take them out of the UK.

[savy57]

ive applied for ds passport and got it with no info from exp, i left all the parts blank about his passport details and i think i remember something about grandparents details (not sure was over a year ago now) but i got ds passport no problem (ds has exp's name not mine) and ive took him abroad twiced with no problems at all and no permission from exp
have you tried applying without his details?

[twinkletoes12]

No, I am going to. I have his details but not the passport details. His dads the difficult one as he was adopted and renamed. and I dont know his birth name.

I read taking the kids out of the UK without ex's permission could end up with my arrested and is against the law though...

I dont have a residency order.

[twinkletoes12]

me*

[savy57]

is he on your little ones birth certificate? if he is just use the name on that while applying for passport thats all i did and got it no problem

i cant advice on the legal aspects but im pretty confident if u have dc full time and he has no contact and made no effort to take u to court etc.. to see children he has given up all legal rights to be a dad

ive honestly never had a problem taking ds out the country and dont think i could be arrested for it, well i really hope not anyways :o

[RandomMess]

You apply to the court to take them on holiday, they will say yes as it's clear he's just being a w*nker and there is no real reason for you not taking them. Post in legal someone will tell you how to go abou it.

[RandomMess]

doh this is legal!!!

[miniwedge]

You don't need his permission unless you are planning to be out of the country for longer than 28days. No need for courts.

[twinkletoes12]

Yes he is on their birth certificate

other issue is ex has ran away and I do not have his address, so how would court inform him I am allowed to take them on holiday?



Where both parents have PR and there are no restricting orders in force then each is expected to obtain consent from the other parent before taking the child out of the UK or face possible prosecution for abduction and/or an application under the Hague Convention (see below) for the child's return to the jurisdiction.

To holiday abroad you will also need a valid passport for the child. New rules on Child Passports came into force in 1998 - children can no longer be added to a parent's passport but are issued with their own. Any person with PR can apply (but must notify all others with PR, who may object)."

[RandomMess]

You have to notify him that you're getting the passports, I think that legislation was introduced for the situations where children are at risk of abduction - plus they can only have one passport so the other parent could apply not realising there was already a passport IYSWIM.

"out of the UK" that means to live not just for a holiday.

[twinkletoes12]

ex has said he will not allow me to get ds a passport... now where do I stand?
sorry to be a pain, I am just so worried. Why does this stuff always happen at weekends so i can't call my solicitior lol.

[mummytime]

Call the passport advice line on 0300 222 0000.

[RandomMess]

You have time, try not to panick. Call passport advice line first and then take it from there.

[Cashncarry]

There's an awful lot of misinformation on this thread (although I understand that the other posters are well-meaning in offering their experience).

The legal situation as I understand it is as follows:

Passport - IIRC any person with parental responsibility can apply for a child's passport. Given the ages of your children and assuming their father is named on the birth certificate, that means he could apply for a passport for them as well as you. This means that you do not need your children's father to give consent when applying for the children's passports and as others have said, it is quite usual to put "unknown" on some questions even where the parents are together. If you have any questions, ring the Passport Advice line on 0300 222 0000 - IME they're quite helpful.

Holidays out of the jurisdiction of England and Wales - any party holding parental responsibility must give consent before the child is removed from the jurisdiction. That means, assuming the father has PR, you must obtain his consent before leaving the UK preferably in writing and notarised by a solicitor so that you don't have any problems either leaving the UK or entering France. You've said you have no court orders but if you had a Residence Order then you could remove the children for up to 28 days without his permission. Obviously you'd need to take a copy of the Order (sealed by the court) with you on holiday.

In your shoes, I would assume that written consent is needed. Write to him at his last known address enclosing details of the holiday including flights, accommodation etc. and stressing your intention to return. Send it by first class post but keep a copy of the letter. If you do not receive a written reply within 28 days, I would then make an application to court for a Specific Issue Order and ask the Court to grant you permission to remove the children for the purposes of the Holiday. I might add a request for a Residence Order in order to avoid any confusion in the future although the Court may be unwilling to grant this. Once you receive the papers from the court giving you a hearing date, you serve him by first class post (again at his last known address).

If all goes well, you show up to court, he doesn't and the Order will most likely be granted in his absence. The court will want to ensure you have taken reasonable steps to locate him and of course the history of his relationshiop with the children. If you have any evidence of him running off and showing no interest in their well-being all the better.

Worst case scenario is that he receives the papers, acknowledges service and then shows up to Court to "fight" the application. In your case, I think it likely that you will succeed simply because it's a short holiday with specific departure and return dates as well as the fact that you're leaving the child at home. If you're employed, take proof of employment as it demonstrates a clear intention to return. Ditto if you're a homeowner/on a long term lease.

What he may do is issue a cross application for Contact or Residence and this is something which I think you would be better to face in the short-term rather than long-term. The only other alternative is for you to cancel the holiday and never leave England and Wales with the children until they're adults. My advice would be to face this problem head on and get the matter into court as soon as possible.

Disclaimer - I'm not currently practising family law so my knowledge may be a little out of date. Hopefully Mumblechum, MOS, Collaborate, Babybarrister or one of the other excellent legal MNers will be along shortly to add to/correct anything I am saying. The best thing you could do is visit a solicitor asap to get the ball rolling. You could do the whole thing yourself as I suggested above but getting advice on your position from someone in "real life" who can see the whole picture would be a good starting point.

[workshy]

I got my DCs passports without the ex having anything to do with it

if you are british then you don't need any permission form him, or to put his details on the passport application other than his name and DOB

he cannot stop you taking them on holiday for a few days

[floatyjosmum]

the only reason they ask for parents details and then grandparents dependign on the age of parents (December 1982) is to see if the child is british and should have a passport.

Ive had passports for my renewed this year without having to put dads details on and didnt when i got their 1st ones.

and in relation to going out the country, you should have their consent but ive only been stopped coming into the country as has my ex (which defeats the point i think)

[prh47bridge]

In the absence of a Residence Order you need his consent to take the children out of the country even if it is only for one night. If he refuses to consent you can apply to the courts for a Specific Issue Order. He may oppose your application but I would be very surprised if you didn't get the order for a genuine holiday.

Whilst some parents do manage to take their children in and out of the country without the appropriate consent they risk being prosecuted for child abduction. On a more mundane level, they risk losing their holiday as some countries will refuse entry to a single parent travelling with children unless there is evidence that they have the necessary consent.

[twinkletoes12]

me and their father were both born after dec 82...
Thank you prh47bridge and cashandcarry!!!! Both of you sound like you know what your on about, looks like I will be going to court for that order. Ex isnt backing down.
Just hope he doesn't get access granted through this... I was hoping to keep him out of their lives. DD doesn't want anything to do with him, and after his abusive behaviour and abandonment I don't see he deserves it either.