Re Good things done by Labour Govt

[Janh]

Cheering John O'Farrell piece in the Guardian today.

[morningpaper]

I read that article and nearly cried at the closing words:

"Then, when Michael Howard is waving on the steps of Downing Street you can tell the people who desperately needed this government to continue: "But I thought everyone else was going to vote Labour, and I could keep my pride and abstain."

People do desperately need this government to continue - people on the minimum wage, people who benefit from working families tax credits, people who can't afford private healthcare... the list goes on.

[Caligula]

No co-incidence that they're publishing this on the day the Labour Party is trying desperately hard to abolish Habeus Corpus. When the House of Lords is more concerned about civil rights than the Labour Party, then we have a serious problem in this country, overseas aid or not.

[Caligula]

People who believe in civil rights need a government who believes in civil rights.

[Janh]

That would be a Conservative one, would it???

Of course this lot have faults but I'd still rather have them than the other lot!

[morningpaper]

... like the Tory Party?! Champions of civil rights I'm sure... Clause 28? Their alleged 'policies' on assylum seekers put them firmly outside EU law on "civil rights"! How many times did the Tory party criticise our "rights" culture?

What are people doing - waiting for the perfect political party? There isn't one. But the alternative is a Michael Howard government - does anyone think that would be better? How short is your memory Caligula?

[Gwenick]

Their alleged 'policies' on assylum seekers put them firmly outside EU law on "civil rights"! How many times did the Tory party criticise our "rights" culture?



And locking up 'suspected' terrorists off the streets and locking them up indefinitely is within civil rights is it????

[morningpaper]

Gwenick, we won't have a choice between the Labour Party and The Perfect Party. We have a choice between the Labour Party and the Tory Party. Take your pick.

[Mud]

or the libdems

personally I think Labour has totally forgotten what it should stand for

[Gwenick]

I'll be voting Lib Dem

[Janh]

Mud, I would go for the LibDems like a shot, if only to find out what happens when they have to put their money where their mouths are.

However I live in a very safe Tory seat so no chance. Bring on PR.

[Gwenick]

but JanH - that's the problem - there's lots of people that say they won't vote Lib Dem ONLY because it's a safe x,y z seat - but if THOSE people put their money where their mouth is Lib Dem would stand a chance.

[Mud]

I like their leader best of all, but I don't really know what they stand for or who anyone else in their party is. It seems a one-trick party but charles is quite funny

[Janh]

Gwenick, we got a LibDem MP, once - you won't remember the Ribble Valley Poll Tax by-election in 1990 when our then MP David Waddington went to the Lords. It was a three-line whip job, all the big guns were here, national news every night blahblah, and on that occasion the Lib Dem scraped in past the new Tory candidate - Poll Tax protest vote. There is absolutely no way it will happen again - our Tory is actually a good constituency MP, even if this wasn't a natural Tory seat, so we get crap candidates from the other parties. Hence plea for some form of PR!

[Caligula]

I think that's where the problem is - the idea that we only have a choice between one set of bastards or a different set of bastards. That is precisely why so many people don't bother to vote at all. Not because we are apathetic, but because we hate them. No I'm not looking for perfection, but the day I will vote for a government which abolishes Habeus Corpus is the day I may as well vote Tory.

If we had PR, some of us might have some hope.

[donnie]

I disagree caligula, I think people ARE apathetic and simply can't be arsed to get off their bums and vote.As others have said, PR would be so much better and fairer.

[Caligula]

I agree some people are apathetic and can't be arsed, but then you have to ask why. Why is it that millions of people can be persuaded to pay to vote for Rowetta or G4 or Steve on the X factor, but aren't motivated enough to walk down to their polling stations?

It's not just because they're all lardy gits too busy watching the X factor (although I accept lots of them are); it's also because they really don't see what would be different if they did. Is that perception all their fault? I don't think so.

I mean, if I had ever believed in the Labour Party, I would be feeling absolutely crushed and betrayed by their latest assault on our civil rights. Not to mention the Iraq War. I know people who have voted Labour all their lives, who now don't have a political "home". They're not apathetic, they're apoplectic. And they have no-one realistic to vote for.

[SenoraPostrophe]

I don't think it's that bad Caligula - a lot of saddos voted lots of times for Steve or rowetta - the figures they give are number of votes, not number of voters.

I do agree that Labour would be better than the Tories, but I'm not going to vote for them. Unlikely to make a difference as I vote in a safe labour seat. Is Billy Bragg doing his labour-lib dem-voter swap thing again?

[ionesmum]

I strongly beleive we have a duty to vote because a) it wasn't so long ago women were going to jail or even dying so that we could and b) there are millions of our brothers and sisters all over the world who are still dying, being tortured or imprisoned in the same cause.

However, I don't see a party that reflects the values that I believe in at all, except maybe the Green Party, and they don't field a candidiate in this Tory stronghold as it's a waste of money. So I will probably end up casting a protest vote on the day

[Jimjams]

I have no idea who I'm going to vote for. I don't agree that labour is the party of choice if you need access to healthcare though. I susepct that has been suggested by someone who's never had to use it under labour. I'll probably vote on some sort of single issue that effects me as I find all the parties so repulsive.

Can't vote labour (President Tony marching off to war- 'nuff said)

Always voted lib dem in the past but evan whatshisface and his ugly mug on programme after programme spouting on about how stupid parents are if they think their children have been damaged by MMR makes me feel unable to vote for them (and to think I voted for the smug bastard years ago). Shame as I like Charles Kennedy (best of the bunch really) but then again I'm not sure I know what they would do in power. Keep meaning to write to charles kennedy suggesting he reins old Evan in as he's losing him votes (mainly because I think they obviously don't listen as much as they claim). he's become a bit of a joke/bad wrod in this house as dh voted for him years ago as well.

Which leaves the Tories. never thought I'd vote them, but they have said they'll stop the closure of special schools- and my local Tory councillors were far more help when SALT was withdrawn from my son that Blair's Babe up in Westminster (who took the time in her letter to me to tell me waht a great job labour were doing for the health service- right at the time when we were unable to acees the help needed- slightly stupid imo).

I always vote but it gets harder each year to know where to put the X. If I don't vote tory I'll vote for the joke party with the funniest name.

A frightening number of people around here vote UKIP (judging by posters in windows). They will screw the Tory vote though- so I do suspect that only labour can get in.

[ionesmum]

We should remember that if we did have PR then extremists like UKIP and the BNP would both have seats in Westminster.

[Janh]

No power though, and their failings would be more obvious than they are now?

[ionesmum]

And taxpayers' money would fund their salaries and perks, and those of their entourages.

Sorry, I'm a bit p**d off with the whole syatem atm...

[ionesmum]

Sorry, that should be system