Graduates

[UnquietDad]

So says the article here.

While I have every sympathy for anyone (graduate or otherwise) trying to buy a house in today's market, is there a bit too much protesting going on here?

I don't think the article specifies what age of graduate they have interviewed, but if this is the old "22-year-olds moaning about not being able to buy a semi with a garden in a nice part of London" thing again, I want to line them all up and slap them with the Wet Kipper Of Reality.

It's like the "I didn't spend three years at Uni to do the photocopying" mentality. What on earth makes people think they have the right to buy a house? For goodness' sake, rent for a bit. It gives you more freedom and it isn't necessarily more expensive.

Most people don't buy a house until they are in their 30s now. DW and I bought our first house - a poky 3-up, 2-down - 10 years ago in our mid-20s, which seemed frighteningly early. We've since taken out a full 25-year mortgage again in our 30s to up to a much bigger house - we won't have paid it off until we're 56-ish, but that's our choice.

[UnquietDad]

Eh? That thread header is meant to read:
Graduates "can't get on housing ladder".

Why did I lose the rest?

[mygirllolipop]

Message withdrawn

[figroll]

Yes, but don't you think that house prices are just totally crazy - graduate or not, it seems a shame that our young people are unable to get a house and start a family without incurring mountains of debt. People come out of university with loans and then have to borrow around £200,000 to get a small flat.

I too bought my first house when I was 23 and it was a semi with a garden. I would like to think that my children will also be able to buy themselves a house at some point without my having to remortgage to give them a deposit. I would also like them to be able to do this before they go through the menopause, because the way we are going first time buyers will be in their 50s.

[beansontoast]

we cant afford a house in the neighbourhood where i was brought up.

im 35,dp is a 38yr old grad.when i graduate in the summer,ill earn approx 20,000

the three up two downs you describe are 320,000.

we are fantasising about a two bed first floor flat that needs LOADS of work...on a noisy main rd ...191,000.

my friend's house has gone up by exactly 100,000 in four years..(she did add a conservatory)

SIGH.

i dont think for one minute that my post has answered anything from the original post..im just ranting.

[UnquietDad]

Oh, house prices are crazy, figroll - agree entirely. Out of all proportion to the actual value.

Buying a first home has always been difficult, though. When our parents were doing it, the market was more sensible, but then again only the main earner's wage - which in practice meant the man's - could be taken into account and you could only borrow 2.5x income.These days you can borrow up to 6x with some lenders - good or bad, depending on how you look at it.

[UnquietDad]

beans, i do sympathise - the 3-up 2-down we bought in 1996 was under £50,000 then, and these days similar houses on that street are going for £160,000+.

But prices vary enormously - the same bog-standard 3-bed terrace in this city could cost £60K, £100K, 160K or £200K, depending on where it is. Areas have a "ceiling". No matter how nicely you do up a house in one area (new floors, nice kitchen, conservatory etc.), it could still go for LESS than a shabby, scummy terrace smelling of dog-wee and with slugs in the kitchen, but in one of the "nicer" school catchments.

That's what really annoys me - the idea that the same house is "more valuable" because it happens to be near a nicer park or a snobbier school.

It doesn't help that there's a daft system in my city where agents deliberately under-value and expect people to pile the bids up ABOVE the asking price, instigating a bidding war which eventually goes to a sealed auction. The "Location" (kirsty & Phil) method of getting in early with a low bid would be laughed out of town here.

[beckybraAAARGHstraps]

But dh and I are in our thirties and are struggling to buy a bigger house. With house prices increasing as they have been, the only hope is equity in a house you already own. We owned a house in Yorkshire, but when we had to move down south for dh's job, we found the houses were twice the price for half the size. So we ended up with two children in a small two-bed terrace. And dh earns a pretty good whack, but the multiples don't touch the price of a bigger house around here. Fortunately we have built up a fair amount of equity in this house so by mortgaging ourselves back up to the limit until we're 60, we can afford that extra bedroom. If dh were the teacher, that wouldn't be possible. If you don't buy in your twenties, you don't build up the equity, and you are totally stuck.

[figroll]

I feel that "equality" for women has actually backfired a bit in the house price scandal. When we bought our first house, I was a student, so we borrowed 2.5 times my husband's salary, as I wasn't earning anything. We found it hard, etc, just like young people do today. However, the multiples for mortgages has really taken off now - 5x, 6x joint salaries. Women are now in the situation where they HAVE to work, it has ceased to become a choice because house prices have risen to take account of duel incomes.

I know women worked years ago too, but often they stayed at home when they had children. Women today have to continue to work because they won't be able to pay the mortgage if they don't. So as women, we now have to do everything: look after the children, bring in a wage, the housework and the cooking and shopping. So much for equality.

[hatwoman]

my czech nanny and her shelf-stacker boyfriend are in their mid-20s. they have already saved enough money (about £5k) to buy a plot of land back in Czech republic. They spend very little money on themselves - I think they have the kind of attitude to saving as many of our parents did. They make a lot of sacrifices in order to be able to do it. (ok £5k isn;t going to get you a deposit on much, but it's a reasonable sum to have got to at such a young age) I do wonder how much young people spend these days whilst saying they can't "afford" to save.

[Blandmum]

Mind you, it isn't helped by the fact that we all expect much more out of life than we used to.

My delightful niece lives with my DB still because she 'can't afford' to by a house. But she does spend a shed load of money on designer stuff, ipods, phones, expensive holidays. She aslo wants a nice house.

When I was her age I wore jeans and a tee shirt, saved up for the odd LP,had a single land line phone and lived in really crappy flats until I saved the dosh for a crappy flat of my own. And it was crappy, but it was a foot on the ladder. DN wants it all perfect immediatly.

I know this isn;t true of all folks, but it is true of some.

[figroll]

I also did an awful lot of DIY, but I have heard that Homebase, etc are having a hard time of it lately because no one does DIY anymore. I am shocked, actually, because I really enjoyed stripping paper and painting with my hubby. It was a lovely, happy time, full of excitement. I remember eating chips on the floor because we didn't have any furniture and scouring the local paper for second hand sofas and armchairs. God, listen to me, what an old codger.

[beckybraAAARGHstraps]

We are selling our "starter home", aged 35 with two children. We have saved, been sensible and fortunately can now afford a slightly bigger house. But if dh were a teacher rather than an engineer, we wouldn't be able to.

[southeastastralplain]

there is such a shortage of new houses being built too, round here a new estate has opened with house prices starting at £350,000. it's so annoying the government moan about not building on green belt, but don't seem to worry about granting permission to build these huge unaffordable estates (often gated too)

[UnquietDad]

martianbishop - agree to some extent. It's the "culture of expectation".

I am now so perilously close to starting a sentence with "Young people today..." that I think I'll duck out now while I still have the facility to climb stairs unaided...

[dizzybint]

when i graduated 5 years ago i bought a huge house in a crappy area, and rented 2 rooms out to a couple of housemates to pay my mortgage for me. 2 years later i sold the house to one of the housemates for a 40k profit, then went off to buy a nice house in a nice area. that's the way to do it. but so many people dont want to 'lower' themselves to live in a crappy area, even if it is just for a couple of years.

[boogiewoogie]

Have to agree with dizzybint. Dh and I are 27 and have been in a "crappy area" for 2 years now, we didn't mind at the time as it's the only way we could afford a house without a mortgage. We intend to live nearer where dh is working sometime next year now that we're both working but being a university city, it's pretty expensive.

[UnquietDad]

That's the way to do it. Live somewhere you don't really want to live for a bit, then move up in stages.

it would be great if we could have the title changed to "Graduates & housing market" or something similar as I originally intended...

[edam]

Agree that people who complain because they can't just waltz into a three-bed semi at age 23 are barking and don't deserve any sympathy. But house prices are mad. My parents bought a four bed detached house when they were 26 - no way I could afford that and I'm a decade older!

Selfishly they got divorced (dad twice) and so had to trade down to smaller houses, meaning I won't get to inherit a big house either. It's just me, me, me with some people... What's 30 years of misery compared with helping your daughter up the housing ladder?

[Marina]

Definitely agree with MB about the crappy rented flats and zero-budget social life. Dh and I felt very fortunate to be able to get a toe on the housing ladder a mere four years after finishing our postgraduate courses, but we bought small and lived on beans for two years thereafter. No stereo etc. "Culture of expectation" sums it up really.
And it changed so fast. I was a warden in a hall of residence in my postgrad year in the late 80s and MANY more of the undergraduates then had their own TVs, several ran cars and had Walkmans and smart clothes. I was four years older than them and it was clear that they thought I was an amiable hippy tramp loser postgrad

[Blandmum]

We did just that. A dodgy flat in a nice-ish area. A nicer flat in a nice area, and now the house we live in, which is the house that we have always wanted. And while we were doing all of this, limited holidays , extras etc

But some people do seem to want 'the works'

Unquietdad.....do you groan when you sit down? I do, and have taken thisas incontravertable proof that I am now officialy middle aged

[Marina]

Dodgy flat in nice area too. Toadstools in the bedroom etc. It was a sort of shack loosely attached to the back of an imposing period residence. People goggled with envy as they approached and with shock as they realised access was via a dank trench down the garden

[Blandmum]

Our second flat was nice, but a total wreck when we bought it. People used to say 'It has lots of potential' which meant it was crappy!

[Marina]

Our current property is mainly referred to as..."nice garden...SUCH a shame you had to move away from X. Doesn't it take a LONG time to get here! Would you say you still lived in London, really?"

[Upwind]

"That's the way to do it. Live somewhere you don't really want to live for a bit, then move up in stages."

DH and I are graduates and we are often given this advice! Even though he earns well above average and I work part time, the only places we could afford to live are in dangerous areas or involve lengthy commutes. We do not want to live in a studio flat as a family, and I do not think it would be good for our children if we each had to spend three hours a day commuting. So we rent, and listen to lectures from family and friends who could never afford to buy their own homes at today's prices.

If we do stretch ourselves to buy now and prices keep going up as they have done in the past few years, surely the price of "the next rung on the ladder" will go up even more? I no longer expect that we will ever be able to buy a decent home.

Hatwoman - we were saving more than 5k a year towards our deposit, pointless really when the price of houses goes up by much more than that every year. If plots of land in this country could be bought for 5k it would focus a lot of minds on preparing for the future. As it is, spending ££ on an Ipod does not make it any harder to buy a starter flat for £250,000.

[DominiConnor]

Sadly, this is a typical example of BBC "proof by survey". So badly so, it almost looks like parody.

It tells us nothing about whether graduates (or anyone else) will be able to buy houses. It tells us how they feel.
Not the same thing at all.

It must be dear to BBC researcher hearts though.
Media Studies drones are flooding the market, and according to the people I know who "hire" them, the pay rates are closer to that of China than Britain. Several firms in the medi actually charge people to work for them.