evidence based complementary medicine

[JJ]

Another good article in the Guardian today If the drugs don't work....

I have to say that although I'm skeptical about many aspects of complementary medicine, I agree with the article almost completely! Very unusual for me.

So, discuss -- I'd be interested what you all think. About his approach, mainly.

[CountessDracula]

I used to be skeptical until my eczema was totally cured 12 years ago by Chinese Herbal medicine - since then I have obviously had a more open mind!

In fact am going to herbalist today for my post Glandular Fever fatigue.

I do think that some of these alternative treatments and therapies work for some people. If, however, the NHS is to pay for them I feel they need to be more closely regulated and that the NHS should only pay for treatments

1. with properly qualified practitioners (eg the one I am seeing today has a MSc in Complementary Therapies (as well as 2 first degrees) and specialised in Chronic Fatigue etc.
   
   
2. The treatment should have undergone proper clinical trials and be proven to work in a significant number of cases.
   
   I do feel that sometimes (esp when people's illnesses are more in the mind than anything else!) that some therapies can have a placebo effect.

[Helsbels]

I am a qualified reiki practioner and holistic therapist and I think that it can help in quite a few cases. I don't make wild claims about curing diseases etc but I do believe that a lot of illnesses are stress based and that reiki and massage can both help relieve stress and tension. I also found that reiki helped ease pain from my arthritis - I don't really care if it is real or 'in my head' as long as I feel better and it doesn't do any harm. I agree with CD that a lot of it is placebo but who gives a monkeys if it makes you happy!!

[Jimjams]

Usually I disagree with anythning Erntz writes so was surprised to find myself agreeing with it.

Homeopathy has at times been near miraculous in this house. 1) with dh (could be placebo in his case) and 2) with ds1 (absolutely no chance of a placebo effect).

It sorted out ds2's croup as well at 2am one cold night.

Declaration of interest: I've moved from "no way it couldn;t possibly work, grain of sand in the English channel blah de blah" to training to be a homeopath.

[CountessDracula]

Helsbels I agree, but should the NHS fund it if it is just a placebo effect? The remit of the NHS has to stop somewhere - is making you happy within their boundaries? I suspect not. I think they already don't have enough money for cancer care etc.

[bundle]

nhs already does "pay for" placebo effect,it's just hard to quantify , and separate it out from drugs/other treatments.
I got an NHS referral to the London Homeopathic hospital, as I only wanted to see a homeopath who was also a trained doctor & I had a lovely placebo-filled 45 mins with her, and never got mastitis again
agree, who cares if it makes you better??

[Helsbels]

No CD I don't think the NHS should pay for reiki - I think people should pay me but I do think some massage has a place especially with terminally ill patients. I think acupuncture can be very effective, so can homeopathy - anything with proven results should be available but unproven faith stuff like reiki only has a place in the private sector IMHO

[Clarinet60]

It depends on your definitions of placebo effect. Some people believe that placebo responses 'trick' the mind into healing the body, so the effects are clinically assessable. There's a large literature on this in med journals. I've worked on research into the cost-effectiveness of integrating CM into the NHS and some of the studies show that it is cost effective (depending on the therapies, obviously). This is because when people feel better and their symptoms are relieved, they spend less time at GPs, and use up less hospital consultant's time, etc etc. So in some cases, it can save the taxpayer money and help people too. CMs are also a godsend for 'heartsink' patients with chronic diseases, those who doctors really can't do much for. GPs especially just don't have the time to cope with such cases, and many are more than willing to offload.

[Clarinet60]

Jimjams, I agree with you re Ernst. I'm having a little argy-bargy with him atm, actually.

[Jimjams]

Are you Droile?


Agree totally with everything you said before as well.

I remember my first brush with CM was when I went to see a chiropractor following a back injury. I asked my GP about it and she just huffed and said "humph well if you want to waste your money...'. Ridiculous really-chiropractors have done far more good on my back than anything the NHS provided (co-proximal, a 26 week wait to see a consultant- where I saw a registrar who suggested that I didn't do the things that made it hurt- I had just told him that anything could set it off- even picking up a bag of shopping).

[bundle]

I think there's a lot of difference between what people class as various types of CM - there is a lot more evidence eg for chiropractor's work than some other kinds. and there's heaps for acupuncture.

[hmb]

Agree bundle, do we expect the NHS to fund crystal therapy or iridology?

[bundle]

abso-bloomin-lutely not

[sibble]

I agree with helsbels, I am both a qualified nurse and reiki practitioner and have seen reiki have a positive effect on a number of different conditions. I do think many cm's should be available on the NHS as a matter of patient choice although agree there is a funding issue involved. IMO as we move from an emphasis of curative (or shutting the door after the horse has bolted) to preventative medicine (hopefully) cm should be more widely available to those who chose it to maintain optimum health. As people have said stress is a major factor in illness whether it is in the emergence or exacerbation of disease and if cm's can decrease or relieve stress they can only have a positive economic impact.
PS I have seen great effects of massage and refelxology on people with HIV/AIDS.

[bundle]

agree, sibble, have seen aromatherapy massage used on cancer patients to give them a real lift

[Jimjams]

good point sibble- our local cancer hospice employs a number of complementary therapists (including homeopaths, aromatherapists) for the patients

[noddy5]

I had my first reiki treatment today and it was so relaxing I am going to have several in a row to start with and then just when I feel I need it.I am mainly having it for stress and a heart arrythmia.Is it good for these things

[FairyMum]

I think complimentray medicine should be more integrated into our NHS-system. I wish most doctors took a more open and positive approach to it, but on the whole I think they know very little about it. I think the problem is the money, but perhaps it would work out cheaper for the NHS because people would actually be cured ? I think the NHS spend a lot of money and time prescribing drugs to patients and not actually looking at the underlying causes of a person feeling sick.

[Helsbels]

Noddy5, reiki is the greatest for stress. Hope it helps you {{{}}}

[sibble]

I agree fairymum, money, lack of understanding and the misplaced belief by alot of medical practitioners that medicine can cure everything - it can't - means that cm is hugely underfunded where it is needed although things are getting better. there are, imo, key areas where cm could be introduced to start with, psychiatric care, cancer care/hospices, HIV/AIDS, and where people have long term degenerative disease eg arthritis. In the long term I would like to see GP's being able to refer to designated centres where co-ops of cm pratitioners would have case studies, agree on an appropriate treatment for the person and condition and then treat accordingly in the same way they have case studies on referal to hospitals. This could be fully funded or subsidised. It would save on unnecessary hospital referals, reduce waiting lists and cut drug bills - there sorted - now what was I going to sort next......ahh yes world famine!!!!!if it was only that easy.

[sibble]

sorry noddy5 didn't mean to forget you from the top of my soap box but reiki can do amazing things for stress, hope it works for you and enjoy it. obviously if you are taking any medication for your heart arrythmia both your reiki practitioner and your doctor should know so they can monitor the effect and your medication. hope it helps.

[noddy5]

day 2 following reiki-I slept about 6 hours last night a miracle for me and woke up today without a sore neck for the first time in at least 2 years!!!!!!!!!

[sibble]

glad it is having a positive effect for you noddy5

[juniper68]

i've used complimentary therapies for years and swear by homeopathy. It works on my kids so that can't be placebo as they're 6 and 3.
The only thing that worries me is when people use herbs etc.. without checking the side effects when mixed with prescription drugs and contraceptives. At least if the NHS start to provide more complimentary therapies they'll check on this.