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And half the idiots who oppose hunting seem to think that if they aren't hunted the dear lickle foxes will die in patchwork quilt-covered beds surrounded by their grieving family. They think it's all like Wind in the Willows

Not patronising at all
I oppose hunting. I was brought up in the country. I used to go hunting. I am not an idiot.
Your attitude towards those who oppose blood sports stinks.

I suppose a Squire posse of Masters of Foxhounds still runs parts of the countryside and they do as they like....Money talks. Does not always use nice language

I'm with PonyofDoom. I only hunted a couple of times in my teens, and now I can't ride at all, according to my back surgeon, but I can still remember it was one of the most exciting things I ever did. My pony did things he could never have done on an ordinary hack: he got soooo excited and he was up for anything. He jumped brush, even a gate. We had an amazing time. It's not the kill, it's the chase. During one, I saw the fox on a wall, grooming himself.

I'm sorry, but hunting is a human instinct. If you've ever tried to catch eels, crabs or fish, even prawns, you'll know that there's a kick when you catch whatever you're after. If you've hunted anything you'll know that feeling. Hunting is something that goes back to our dawn, and enjoying it is a very human thing.

And I'm not convinced by the cruelty thing. Hallal killing by throat slitting is far worse, and I know I would far rather be a wild fox than a captive chicken.

Loads of people have commented that "they don't do this elsewhere in Europe" when actually they do. See this link www.eurohunt.co.uk/. The French love hunting with dogs, as do a lot of other nations. The Americans, of course, hunt big time, and acknowledge this "thrill of the chase" thing.

The hunting laws were brought in to placate urban dwellers with no investment in the countryside or its ways. There are far more city types than farmers now. And half the idiots who oppose hunting seem to think that if they aren't hunted the dear lickle foxes will die in patchwork quilt-covered beds surrounded by their grieving family. They think it's all like Wind in the Willows.

But nature is not pretty. And farmers have to do some ugly things - regardless of the hunt. Rural life is not sanitised, but too many people who only see it as "pretty" don't appreciate how tough it can be, or realise how important the hunt can be to a community.

I toured a few working American farms on my gap year and sobbed at their methods. I tried being vegetarian afterwards, but decided to just not eat meat whilst out of UK.

Of the people I know who don't agree with hunting, none of them can bothered to get up on a wet, cold, dark, morning to follow ther local hunt, they would rather stay in bed and just sign some sort of petition and infact many of them havnt even bothered to sign anything. Those that make the effort I agree, are normally in it for the wrong reasons and create more damage then good. Our local police only pay any interest to keep those types away.

No I thought our poultry farmers nearly bankrupted themselves changing over to larger cages (£400 million spent) while the rest of europe has decided not to bother here. So if you are bothered then make sure your eggs are british. I haven't bought supermarket eggs for many years, all mine came from the local farm shop and now I have my own hens who I know are spoiled rotten!

Battery farming chickens is vile so why do it... but it's legal.

I thought it wasn't anymore?

good question ariel - and conflicting info on that too....

Who classes what as vermin? Bit subjective isn't it? Lots of people see herring gulls as vermin, yet they are a declining and protected species. How is the fox classed under the 1981 Wildlife and Countryside Act? (genuine question) Because I thought that all wildlife was protected under that, unless specifically stated e.g. magpies, rabbits. There are moves to specify cormorants as non protected as well, meaning that anyone with a rifle can have a pop at them.

Given the choice between going to reports of illegal hunting and, say, a burglary in progress guess which wins our time
well i should flipping hope so!!
also, foxes, as vermin, do need to be controlled; other ways are with poison or by shooting - both of these methods could cause the fox to suffer far more than a quick death with hounds - for example ingesting a dose of poison that doesn't do the job quickly, or a bullet that wounds but does not kill.

Civil disobedience is a good thing and not to be bracketed with actual bodily harm, ffs. How do you think you got the vote? By asking nicely? Fat chance!

i cant not do the right thing- but as a police officer the only role one has is to gather evidence and then present it to either a court of law or the CPS for a decision on whether it gets as far as a court of law.

i took an oath that i will uphold the law. I would do that in any circumstances. My own personal feelings rarely come into anything i do, discretion is increasingly becoming impossible to show as more and more policy and procedure is written into what we do.

Vicarinatutu, I do hope that as a police officer you follow the law rather than allow your own feelings to colour certain situations!

On both sides of the fence there are many law-abiding citizens legally going about their everyday lives, whether that be hunting or observing hunts. On both sides of the fence there are trouble causers who are happy to break the law in pursuit of their beliefs. There are people who are pro- and anti-hunting who feel very strongly about it, and both sides believe the other side to be unreasonable. The most extreme examples of abhorrent behaviour (there have been references to both saboteurs and hunt supporters being killed by the other side here, and in all cases no conviction was made) are the examples usually bandied about and do neither the hunters or animal rights folk any good.

Without declaring an interest either way, I would like to think that if you came across a case of aggravated trespass, civil disobedience or actual bodily harm (all of which have been committed by AND against hunt followers AND hunt monitors in recent years) you would do the right thing.

Pickety not strictly true but no one has ever reported hunting to me. The group that follows ours have a dedicated wildlife officer.

that and we are so bloody stretched now - my shift used to be 20 strong, now is down to 6 on a good day - if anyone is off, on hol, sick, or maternity leave we are basically buggered. It often means the control room prioritise stuff before it even gets to a police officer. Given the choice between going to reports of illegal hunting and, say, a burglary in progress guess which wins our time....sign of the times.

But they have done it for many years, even when hunting was legal.

they do it because the police are not interested in enforcing the law

Yes many actual hunt sabateurs are troublemaking wankers. But to class everyone who's against hunting as a sab, just as classing everyone who rides with the hounds as a chinless, braying overbred toff, is deliberately miunderstanding the situation.

I understand lidls ici point perfectly.

As I have made very obvious on this thread I am dead against hunting.

But I think a lot (most?) hunt saboteurs are in it for the wrong reasons too. My uninformed impression is that most do it for the kicks and/or some misinformed view that they are not anarchists striking out against the Upper classes. I'm not convinced that they are that fussed about animal welfare.

Or "you benefit from chemicals, don't you? how can you be against ICI?"

I'm not saying that ICI are paragons of virtue. Of course not. However, if you are starting arguments such as "You're not a vegetarian: how can you be against fox hunting?", then an equally valid one could be "You use crude oil don't you? How can you be against ICI?" iyswim.

this is the kind of thing that goes on at ICI.

no it is not, think about it.

Your last post is stupid.

and the funniest thing of all is that when they graduated, typically, they ended up working for ICI and the like. aww they cared so much for the little furry animals....

oh yeh they do that. the uni sabs here (west wales) used to bus down to the Vale of Aylesbury (near London, lots of 'weekend hunters' - because, actually, if they had met a bunch of Welsh farmers on horseback, they would have shit themselves.

Some of you live in totally vile communities. Our area is by far from perfect, the only animosity I have ever experience towards hunting is when some anti's were mini bused in from anther area to kick off at the boxing day meet the christmas that hunting laws were amended.

The cap certainly fit the psychopaths that day, they were back on their fun bus and heading home within minutes.