Woman dies in Galway after being denied termination

(1000 Posts)
AThingInYourLife Wed 14-Nov-12 07:07:12

Holy evil pro-life bastards, batman

The wonder is it that there haven't been more angry

RIP Savita Halappanavar sad

swooosh Wed 14-Nov-12 11:19:21

Truly horrific. I work in a private hospital in England and often work night shifts. We regularly get calls from Irish girls begging for help and asking if we do abortions, which we don't. It's so awful to hear them. sad

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Wed 14-Nov-12 11:20:05

This is horrific.

What I don't understand is why, if it is clear a woman is miscarrying, any procedure to hasten the foetus' exit can still be called an abortion?

Evil, evil, evil bastards. I hope they're fucking happy with themselves but I imagine hardcore pro-lifers will say hers is a rare case, and that it's worth losing a few women here and there to save all those embryos. Or they'll say that there could have been a miracle. Or some shit about the child being in its mothers arms in heaven, so that's OK then.

Horrific. I agree that the pro-life lobby who fight against changing laws to protect the mothers have her blood on their hands.

If you make an act such as abortion illegal, then you endorse criminal action against those who perform or are part of that act. And law abiding professionals will choose protection for themselves and their careers over protecting life.

I wish people could distinguish between feeling sad about something as a concept: "I wish there were less abortions in the world, it is a sad thing"
And wanting to actively criminalise other people by legislating against abortion. "I'd rather you died or went to prison than you have an abortion safely and legally"

Like the frightening pro-life republicans who want to legislate to make abortion illegal except in cases of rape or incest. How exactly do they think this would work in practice? Who are they going to prosecute, how will they judge who is legal and who isn't? Who gets rights over their own body, and who is denied those rights? It's a ridiculous, unworkable, dangerous concept.

I hope her death isn't entirely in vain. I hope laws change after this heinous event so that other women don't go through this.

AThingInYourLife Wed 14-Nov-12 11:25:16

"What I don't understand is why, if it is clear a woman is miscarrying, any procedure to hasten the foetus' exit can still be called an abortion?"

Because an Irish foetus had rights of its own.

If a born person has a heartbeat but you know they will die, you don't get to kill them.

Same for a foetus here. Until the foetus was dead the medical team were havi g to balance the competing rights to life of woman and foetus.

And so the woman died.

BornSour Wed 14-Nov-12 11:27:39

This is why its so important to give women rights over their own bodies.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Wed 14-Nov-12 11:28:35

I didn't realise the Irish establishment was quite so insane.

Comparisons with the Taliban aren't actually that far off the mark, are they?

Lottapianos Wed 14-Nov-12 11:28:47

'Or they'll say that there could have been a miracle. Or some shit about the child being in its mothers arms in heaven, so that's OK then'

They will probably take a 'tragic but them's the breaks' attitude. They will certainly be just as devastated about the death of the foetus as they are about the death of an adult woman, who leaves a husband, family and friends behind to grieve for her.

Lottapianos Wed 14-Nov-12 11:29:39

'Comparisons with the Taliban aren't actually that far off the mark, are they?'

No, they're not sad

Curtsey Wed 14-Nov-12 11:30:07

The Catholic Church don't actually have much to do with this situation at this point in time. The Government, in the year 2012, is not obliged to them - indeed Enda Kenny has gone out of his way to emphasise this when it suits them. Blaming the CC is a bit of a red herring.

The specific fault lies with:

The Irish Government - too cowardly to introduce a new referendum

Youth Defence and similiar militant and bullying pro-life movements - who are religiously motivated, yes, but who are not specifically allied with the CC. Their recent shock campaigns have frightened and confused many people and I personally have witnessed scores of dazed-looking schoolgoers wander up to their street tables to sign their names in support.

It remains to be seen if there were other medical malpractices involved, but thanks to the current lack of legislation, this was a situation just waiting to happen. Fucking appalling.

EasilyBored Wed 14-Nov-12 11:30:20

That is utterly heartbreaking. Her poor husband and family. To know you are going to lose your baby, and then to lose your wife, when it could have been prevented must just be like living a nightmare.

I have a lot of feelings about the abortion debate, but they all come down to the fact that I just cannot accept that it is reasonable to start a discussion from the viewpoint that women should ever not have 100% autonomy over their own bodies. We would never engage in a discussion about whether it is legitimate for a man to be required to donate plasma/blood every week for the next 18 years of his life - starting from the point that this is a totally reasonable and rational thing to expect. I can't word it properly because it makes me so so so furious, but this is a really good article to explain how I feel:

www.autostraddle.com/im-not-interested-in-finding-a-truce-in-the-culture-war-im-interested-in-winning-it-147532/

sieglinde Wed 14-Nov-12 11:32:41

Utterly horrible... but I've had septicemia twice myself, once from a natural miscarriage and once after giving birth to ds1, when I pointed it out to the registrar myself.. sad. Why were no or insufficient antibiotics prescribed? There's more to it than the abortion question; sounds like overall care was very wonky.

beginnings Wed 14-Nov-12 11:32:54

someone I don't know how old you are but it was either your or your parents' generation that allowed abortion to be made unconstitutional in 1982 and it was your and my generation that has allowed successive governments to not get their fingers out and legislate on the basis of the Supreme Court's judgment in the X case 20 years ago. My parents voted (and campaigned) for a no vote in 1982 but sadly as the pro-life campaign had come out of nowhere and the country was what it was back then, that was a largely pointless exercise.

We cannot and should not make excuses along the lines of "not everyone here thinks like that." It is the responsibility to of every thinking person in the country to be on the doorstep of their TD today demanding legislative development to clear up this shameful shameful situation.

I'm ashamed to be Irish today.

beginnings Wed 14-Nov-12 11:34:57

Curtsey we don't need another referendum. You're never going to boil the complexities of this area into a constitutional article anyway. We need legislation. The X case allows for it. The lack of legislation is where the governmental cowardice lies.

MummytoMog Wed 14-Nov-12 11:35:00

My god. I just don't understand how this can be allowed to happen in a supposedly civilised country. Death from the complications of miscarriage is very rare, and she was extremely unlucky, but to be begging for help and denied it sad

suburbophobe Wed 14-Nov-12 11:36:29

I live in a country where abortion is illegal and those carrying out abortions face death by firing squad.

OMG! Words fail me.

Thank God I live where I do.

CheerfulYank Wed 14-Nov-12 11:37:18

Oh my dear God, that poor poor woman. sad

I'm another who is "iffy" on certain things regarding abortion, but this is really beyond ridiculous. The poor woman was miscarrying anyway! angry

seeker Wed 14-Nov-12 11:37:47

The pro lifers have her blood on their hands.

The Catholic church has her blood on their hands.

No amount of twisting and weaselling and "it was a one off" can get away from that.

And we must not let them get away with it.

EasilyBored Wed 14-Nov-12 11:38:07

^Exactly suburb. But I imagine that quite a lot of people would look at a country like ROI and think that something like that would never happen in a modern, civilised country like that.

Theala Wed 14-Nov-12 11:40:02

This "Being all appalled when the totally fucking inevitable happens is hand-wringing nonsense."

and this someone I don't know how old you are but it was either your or your parents' generation that allowed abortion to be made unconstitutional in 1982 and it was your and my generation that has allowed successive governments to not get their fingers out and legislate on the basis of the Supreme Court's judgment in the X case 20 years ago.

I was a teenager when the X case happened and I remember marching for her right and the rights of other irish women for automony over their own bodies. We warned at the time that something like this would happen. We told you what might happen when a foetus has more rights than its mother.

Don't fucking say now you weren't warned and that you didn't know and how appalled everyone is. You reap what you sow.

AThingInYourLife Wed 14-Nov-12 11:40:08

We should have a referendum to remove every mention of abortion from the constitution.

Irish women's rights will not be fully restored until the offensive eighth amendment is done away with. That is where foetuses are given equal rights to the mother (against legal advice).

BellaTheGymnast Wed 14-Nov-12 11:45:37

Thanks for the link, juliascurr.

Can someone clarify the legal position please? In ROI is it illegal to perform a termination even if the mother's life is in danger? Is it the same in NI, or, if the mother's life is in danger a termination is allowed?

I'm sure many people in the UK don't realise that in a part of their country abortion is illegal.

BellaTheGymnast Wed 14-Nov-12 11:53:52

This from the Guardian article:
"Reports of the death sparked an outcry on Wednesday night in Ireland, where abortion is illegal unless the life of the woman is in danger."

Surely then there is an issue here with doctors not realising her life was in danger?

I had an induction at 20 weeks last year due to medical reasons.

My cervix failed and my waters broke at 18+5, then my cervix started to close again. We decided to wait it out unless I showed signs of infection.

Unfortunately when the cervix started to shut the babies feet were in it and I started to show signs of infection at 19+6 so was given pesserys.

I don't know how much longer i would of had to wait for the heartbeat to stop.

Dp is from the ROI, I'm bloody glad we decided not to move over there now. That poor women and her family

Curtsey Wed 14-Nov-12 11:54:56

beginnings - you are quite right: new legislation is what I had meant to say. The ruling is quite clear - so where is the legislation?

AThing such an referendum would draw out every misogynistic fucker who couldn't be arsed to vote in the children's rights referendum last weekend. Guaranteed.

willitbe Wed 14-Nov-12 11:57:48

Terminations are allowed and done in Ireland where the life of the mother is at stake, eg ectopic pregnancies following the court ruling with case x 20 years ago. The legislation is up in the air though due to the issue of whether threat of suicide on the part of the mother, is going to be allowed as a reason for termination. Therefore the "working committee", are still trying to establish exactly what the rules are for determining whether the life of the mother is at threat.

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