Universal credit - Child element details

[Orwellian]

I just had a look at this; ssac.independent.gov.uk/pdf/uc-draft-regs-2012-memorandum.pdf

If you scroll down to page 9, point 45 it says;

"The child element comprises of two rates; one rate for the first/only child and then a reduced rate for second and subsequent children.".

So it looks like what is currently child tax credits will no longer be paid at the same rate for each child and will instead (within universal credit) be paid in the same way that child benefit is now paid. I wonder what the rate will actually be for first children and then for subsequent children?

[Ryoko]

Two lumps of coal a month for the first, one lump for each additional child thats not in the workhouse.

[gaully]

I can't see a Family Element like they have now for Child Tax Credits. It's worth about £500 but you only get it once no matter how many children you have. Currently the first child receives more than subsequent children - so it could be that nothing is changing.

[2old2beamum]

If that is the case the government had better have one of our severely disabled adopted children back into care (shh my loveys not really) who were costing this country thousands in residential care. We DID NOT do it for financial care we felt these children deserved a forever family but we cannot do it on air.

[Lougle]

Get this:

"If [one part of a claimant couple] is under 18 or treated as not resident in Great Britain then that ?ineligible adult? is to be ignored for the purposes of calculating the Universal Credit Maximum Amount - although their capital, income and earnings shall still be taken into account"

In other words, they will ignore the fact that there are two mouths to feed, but reduce the one-adult entitlement by the amount of the other person's income.

Nice.

[GoodPhariseeofDerby]

It's a surprisingly clear document, barring the lack of payment figures (only cap figures) and pg. 42 where it uses the term "week of confinement" I presume to mean the week of the estimated due date.

[Lougle]

Yes, frighteningly clear

[littlemisssarcastic]

I have briefly perused this document.

Can anyone explain in simpler terms what point 91 means when it says:

There is to be a time limit of 2 years when it comes to payment of housing costs within the full conditionality group. After 2 years, the payments will stop and will not be reinstated until claimant has had a break in claim and has served a further waiting period.

Who are people with full conditionality? I am a single parent with DD, almost 4, and I cannot find a job atm.

My friend is very concerned too. She is working age, claims full HB and council tax benefit at the moment, but does not work and is supported by family. (Chooses not to claim JSA through her principles)

What will happen to the people who cannot find a job within 2 years??? I'm getting very concerned now. Where are all of these jobs going to come from??

[Lougle]

Full conditionality is explained on page 41 of the document.

Your friend would be in the FC group.

Page 44 of the document suggests that you would be in the full conditionality group, but you could limit your availability to school hours minus travel time.

[FrothyOM]

They are going to stop paying housing costs?!

[CouthyMow]

WHAT THE FUCK?! If you work PT, like I will have to due to disability that they don't recognise as a disability anymore despite me having uncontrolled epilepsy then you are still reliant on housing costs being paid. I would earn less than my rent and utilities in a Social Housing property.

My HA house costs £720pcm. On 24 hrs a week (the absolute most I will manage despite having 'full conditionality' because I don't meet the criteria for DLA anymore, due to my epilepsy), I will earn only £1,087.84 before tax. Once I have paid rent, council tax, electric, water and gas, I will have spent more than my earnings?!

And about the thing for ignoring under 18's in a relationship - how will it work, say, for a 17yo Lone Parent? Up till now, it has been the case that they can claim AS an over 18 if they have sole responsibility for a DC. Does this mean that is changing too?

[Lougle]

Lone parents under 18 will be counted, so no change there.

Also worth checking the childcare cost bit. Haven't had time to do the maths yet, but am suspicious that they are giving Ann amount per month, not per week as is currently. I wonder if the new figure is actually lower.

[littlemisssarcastic]

Lougle If I were to limit my availability to school hours minus travel time, what would happen if after 2 years, I have not found employment?

It clearly says in point 91 that the housing part of the universal credit will be stopped after 2 years for people who are in the full conditionality group.

Am I misreading/misunderstanding this?

Also, how long is the break they talk about for? How long is the further waiting period for? (Basically, how long would I have to fund my own rent out of nothing/how much rent arrears would I accrue/Would it be serious enough to cause me to be evicted for non payment of rent?)

[littlemisssarcastic]

Limit on Payment of Housing Costs
91. There is to be a time-limit of two years on payment of housing costs to claimants in the full conditionality group of Universal Credit. When such a claimant has received help with housing costs for a period of two years these payments will stop and will not be reinstated until a claimant has had a break in claim and has served a further waiting period. This is underpinned by the principle of providing short-term help through the benefits system and because it is not considered appropriate that this help is provided indefinitely. This is intended to focus the help that is given through the benefits system on those on low income when they need it most.

I MUST be reading this out of context, although I have looked and looked and it appears this is exactly what the govt are planning for us. WTAF???

[Lougle]

Umm...I think you are reading it correctly, LMS

[LornMowa]

I think there's a difference between Housing Costs which provide help with mortgage interest and Housing Benefit which helps with the cost of rent.

Housing Costs are currently only paid 13 weeks into a claim and I think end after 2 years.

[littlemisssarcastic]

So does this mean that the 2 year limit will only affect homeowners?

People who rent are safe?

[littlemisssarcastic]

Housing benefit is being replaced by universal credit, as is mortgage interest payments, so I maybe wrongly assumed all the housing costs referred to any of those payments.

[tripletipple]

From reading the document on DWP website it would appear that "housing costs" does include rented properties
//www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/uc-drafts-regs-2012.pdf (Part 4, chapter2)

[CouthyMow]

So what would this mean for someone whose partner leaves them with a tiny baby? Does this mean that they HAVE to go back to work with a toddler, paying Nursery costs?

And what if you are on a low income but working? This means that someone on NMW won't get the equivalent of HB after 2 years?!

How in the name of fuckery do they expect someone with 2/3 DC to pay housing costs out of a maximum of £11,650 BEFORE tax and still pay all their bills and feed their DC?

This is going back to the worst of Margaret Thatcher and then some.

I can see that there will be cases where whole families will be homeless. My family will be one of them.

[Xenia]

CM, I went back to work when all the babies were 2 sweeks old. People can. They have just got lazy and reliant on benefits. 2 yeras of housing benefit is a huge thing to be given my hard working squeezed middle tax payers.

I think this will have huge support. Iain DS is doing a very good job.

What we want is the more people work the better off they are. Also most people are out of work for about a year and they need the welfare state to get them back on their feet and then they plough on. That is life for most people. Many of us have moved very far to find work as well. No reason why the less well off should not do that too.

[Xenia]

Also making payments for second children lower is exactly what child benefit has done for decades so no surprise there. Obviousyl the hard worknig squeezed middle often do not have more than 2 children as they cannot afford them. Those who live off their backs are not so constrained but perhaps now they might be.

[CouthyMow]

I'm not TALKING about HB for the unemployed (and for the record, I went back to work just 5 weeks after my DS2 was born, am only out of work due to I'll health at present), I'm talking about HB for those employed on NMW who work FT for just £11,650 before tax.

In the SE, on NMW, you can't even cover the rent on a 1-bed flat without help from HB. If no-one on NMW can get help with the rent when they work, and 80% of HB claimants are EMPLOYED, then they will all have to move Northwards.

Who does that leave to clean your house, clean your streets, clean your hospitals, cook the food in hospitals, push your hospital bed to the operating theatre, take away your bin bags, cut your hair, serve you in any shops, care for your elderly relatives...

Be very careful what you wish for, it might just come true...

[Northernlurker]

This government is engaged in a massive role back of the welfare state and yes people are going to suffer because of these changes. It's not a good time to lose your job, have a disability, be abandoned by a partner or indeed be anything other than Mr and Mrs Middle Class Tory.