Just had meeting to discuss rtw....It didn't go well !!!!!

[linniewith2]

I currently hold the position as a full time Customer Service Manager within a local supermarket and I went for an informal chat with the manager this morning to discuss my options before I did anything formal.
After weighing up the pros and cons of childcare both nurseries and childminders cots etc I decided it would be best to just drop 5.5hrs a week to enable my dp and me to share childcare between us as he works a twilight shift.

Anyway I was informed that department managers are normally full time employees and thats the way the company likes to work it! and that there was currently no other options available to me (as in a similar job with hrs that would fit)
So basicly I have to work full time or not work at all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finding childcare is a nightmare as no nursery or childminder in this area works on a sat and no family are available to take the 2 lo's.
The childminder that I did use with dd1 has now given up.....I have no idea what I am going to do, I earn the higher wage and I'm soooooo stressed.
I either need to find childcare for 2 dd's that will eat in to a large proportion of my wages or go ahead with requesting a drop in hours that then has to be approved by our Divisional Exec, which looks unlikely.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[zebra]

Doesn't sound right, doesn't the employer have a duty to consider your request to return p/t? And have to demonstrate why the job has to be f/t, if that's their argument?

[TeriS]

Lots of (((hugs))) and !

msn is playing up again! can't sign back in....

[DelGirl]

agree with Zebra, they'd have to come up with a very good reason why you can't reduce your hours. 5 1/2 isn't much to drop by so I would push for it if it was me. Good luck

[deegward]

Go for it, unless they have a economic or business reason they cannot dismiss this out of turn. You will probably find that your HR department would be mortified if they hear waht you had been told. I would put your request in writing, and take it from there.

[LIZS]

Retailers are purported to be the most flexible to work for, at least so they'd like to make out. Can you speak to your Regional Personnel person, or a Union Rep if you have one, to see where you stand and if there are precedents in other branches. It could be just your manager being difficult in the hope that you cave rather than representing company policy. Who is doing your job atm - could they cover the extra hours ?

good luck

[linniewith2]

I had the regional hr manager sat in with me.....strange he just happened to be there today ! he said that although it is unusual for there to be a pt dept head it is not unheard of...then the cow said but in a store of our size it realy warrents a full time position.
The woman who took over from me hated it sooooo much that she purely did the basics of cash and supervision but gave up on doing the management aspects so this has fallen to the store manager to sort whilst Ive been away.
I think her problem arrises out of the hrs I am available to work 7-1 mon tue fri sat and 7-5 on a wed, she feels that with these hrs I would not effectively be able to mangage my staff as I have approx 30 of them working between the hrs of 8am and 9pm so I would never get to see some of them!
I am relooking at childcare ............but so far have drawn a blank

[DelGirl]

could they find someone to job share maybe?

[sis]

Put your application in writing and wait for a response. Don't help them by second guessing why they might not want you to work those hours unless you can also put forward a solution! Make your application as 'broad' as possible - ie set out the situation and ask to work flexibly and put forward some options (the one you have already suggested plus a possible job-share?) and state that you would be happy to consider other options if they allow you to meet your domestic commitments too. Have a look at the info on the DTI website here

[Chepstow1]

Linniewith2 - listed to Sis. On the DTI website it will take you through your rights and the process by which you can apply for flexible working. Apply in writing for your proposed hours, your employer has to respond back to you in writing within a month or so with s response. Personally (I did this last year), I brainstormed all the reasons why my boss could say no to my request, then incorporated how we could get round any barriers in my "proposal", thus leaving him no option but to agree. On the people management front, this is rubbish (that you won't see them), you delegate reponsibilites to others and ensure that the management aspects are being done. This expands others roles/trains people in management skills.

A survey was done a year or so ago by one of the large trade unions and 90% of requests for flexible working were illegally refused.

I made it too difficult for anyone to say no by coming up with solutions - in your case maybe giving some of the management aspects to another person for part of the 30 you look after, perhaps you try and see them on a semi regular basis e.g once a month, etc etc.

Good luck and don't cave in

PS using the dti forms and process helps and in your letter of appliation stating that you understand the process usually oils the wheels as well (puts the willies up narrow minded bosses!!)

[linniewith2]

I'm afraid to say that I have caved in !
I have found a nursery willing to do the hrs that I require from the 3rd of Jan and a babysitter who is willing to do every sat afternoon so I can go back to work on the 6th Dec with dp's mum looking after the dd's temp untill that time, The only problem that I have is that she can not do one of the afternoons needed!
Do you think it is a reasonable request to ask that for 4 wks I take 3hrs off each friday until the nursery place becomes available ? I would wait until Jan to go back but basicly financial situations dictate that I need to be back at work and earning some much needed cash.
I have 18.75hrs lieu time owed to me and also have 2 wks holiday to be used so was going to suggest that these hrs were covered by one of those two options so that I will recieve a full wage.
Obviously they can't complain because from Jan I will be returning to exactly the same hrs as I left but they could be about the fri reductions!

I see this as reasonable....what do you think?

[LIZS]

Sounds reasonable to me. When do you have to use the time off and holiday by ?

[linniewith2]

The reason I caved is because I can't afford my rtw to be delayed, I saved enough money to cover my matternity leave and that was it! at the last meeting I was given our own company policy relating to flexible working and it states that it can take up to 56 days to consider a request for flexible working and if that request was refused then I'd have to go away and consider my options again...
This way at least I can return to work and start earning again. I may decide once I'm back to continue with the flexible working request to drop those hours but at least I would be at work iykwim !

[linniewith2]

Both need to be taken by april 2005

[LIZS]

The potential arguments against it would be that it is Christmas trading period (when often resources are pretty stretched and traditionally stores are busy) and I suppose a Friday afternoon might be one of the busier periods of the week. Might be worth being prepared to argue this. However they may still be ok with you taking some of it soon as you may otherwise find it difficult to fit it all in by April and you are giving a commitment to being full time in the New Year.

Good luck

[sis]

Linnie, please remember that you can put in the formal request after you return to work - and it may be wise to do that sooner rather than later as the company seems to such a painfully slow timescale for dealing with them - the cynic in me says they have done this delibrately to drag out the standard working hours for as long as possible!

[linniewith2]

Well I had my 2nd meeting this morning with the Store Mngr and the Regional HR Manager. I am glad the Hr Manager was there as he actually stuck up for me!
She wasn't going to accept my proposal to take lieu time for 4 friday afternoons stating that this was the busy Xmas period, I gently reminded her that as my M.Leave didn't finish until Jan wouldnt it be better if I was there for 35hrs a week during the run up to xmas rather than not at all...she didn't like the fact that I challenged her! The HR manager then added this this was a perfectly reasonable request as I had made the arrangements for the childcare to start asap. She also wanted me to put my requests in writing and when I said I don't believe I have to as I am returning to my original contracted hrs the HR Manager backed me up once again !
So thats it all sorted for the time being and only 3 wks left until I rtw I shall see how it works and may request the flexible working if it doesn't work out....She also took great delight in telling me that they will be changing my role (not my job title) to encorperate more work on the sales floor rarther than in the cash office! I believe she is doing this once again to make life difficult for me as I have lower back problems and can not stand for long periods of time (currently under medication and undergoing physio). So I think she wants to save some money from the store budget by giving my role to a lower paid employee...who won't argue back and by changing my duties to something she knows perfectly will cause me vast ammounts of pain and discomfort I would have no other option but to resign or change my role.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid but I'm sure she wants me out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Leogaela]

Your store manager sounds like a complete BITCH!!!!
Would it help if you have a a letter from your doctor regarding your back problems? Surely then you can't be forced to take a job which involves a lot of standing.

[Freckle]

A woman who was working full time before her maternity leave may want to return to work part time, job share or on different hours, either because of her domestic circumstances or because she needs to spend more time caring for her child(ren). There is no statutory right to do this, but from 6 April 2003, there is a right for her request to be able to work family-friendly hours to be considered seriously. If she goes back to work part time, her terms and conditions of employment should not be changed without her agreement. If her request for a more flexible working pattern is refused or her terms of employment are changed, she may also have a claim for indirect sex discrimination.

A woman does not have an absolute right to return to work part time, but if an employer refuses to allow a woman to return to work part time, she may be able to make a claim for unlawful indirect sex discrimination. This claim would be made under section 1 of the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 (in N. Ireland, section 3 of the Sex Discrimination (Northern Ireland) Order 1975). This says that an employer will have committed an act of unlawful sex discrimination if:-


a particular employment practice affects women unfavourably compared to how it affects men, for example, a requirement to work full time; and


the employer cannot show that the particular employment practice is necessary and appropriate to the effective achievement of the objectives of the business (that is, the employer cannot justify a refusal); and


a particular woman suffers a detriment as a result (that is, she cannot work the hours required of her).

If an employer refuses, after negotiation, to allow a woman to return part time, or to work other child-friendly hours, she can complain to an employment tribunal on grounds of indirect sex discrimination. There is no minimum length of time that a woman must have been working to make a sex discrimination claim, but she must make the claim within three months of the employer's refusal of part-time work. She will need assistance from a specialist in sex discrimination cases, and it would be useful for the bureau to discuss the case with the Equal Opportunities Commission (Equality Commission in N. Ireland) or with Maternity Alliance.

HTH