Nurseries won't accept friends daughter cos of health probs...Is this right

[nutcracker]

One of my old neighbours visited yesterday and was telling me about another old neighbour of mine who's daughter has lots of health probs.

From what I can remmber she has Hirschsprungs disease and has had quite a few operations already.

She is now 3 and her mom is getting worried that she is not going to settle into school next year as she has no social interaction with other kids.
She said that she has approached a few nurseries about a couple of sessions a week and has been told that due to her daughters health probs she cannot attend for insurance reasons.

I was pretty gobsmacked. Is this right does anyone know ??

[chatee]

no it's discrimination....sorry i'm in a rush....

[coppertop]

The insurance argument sounds like a bit of a cop-out IMHO. It sounds very much like discrimination to me. Can your friend contact the local Early Years Inclusion Service? Their number is usually on the local council's website. The EYIS, as their name suggests, do a lot of work to get children of all abilities included in education. They may also be able to help when the time comes for the little girl to start school.

[Miriam2]

They may have to make some particular arrangements re: insurance but that's easily done. And even if they are worried about staffing levels (ie that your friend's daughter might need extra help and they wouldn't have enough staff) they can get one-to-one support via the local Early Years team (if they are in UK) It's definitely discrimination to exclude her on any grounds.

[Fio2]

could she get a statement? for extra funding? My sister had to get one because she had cystic fibrosis, but no actually learning problems - so nursery/school would meet her needs. Saying that they didnt meet her needs, they were supposed to employ someone to give her physio during the lunchbreak, but that never happened. In reality my mum had to go give her her physio and nebulisers in the staff room where they all smoked!.....needless to say she started taking her home dinners after about a fortinight

it is discrimination

[Jollymum]

She is entitled to lots of stuff, ask Jimjams. It's disgusting that she hasn't had any help. All kids are entitled to mix with others and if it takes more money/time efort, well that's what Social Services etc etc etc are there for!

[nutcracker]

I thought it wasn't right.

TBH I think it's probably that she has a colostomy bag that is putting the nurseries off.

I'm not sure how long she is having it for, but I know it's not that long.

I will suggest all the things on here to her, so at least then she'll know she does have a right to a place.

[Twinkie]

God changing a colostomy bag is IMO no worse than changing a nappy and sometimes a damn site cleaner (Mind you I have only changed pensioners colostomy bags and they must be far worse!!)

[Jimjams]

does it count as a disability. if so then they may well be contravening the disability discrimination act. Often threatening noises made about this are enough to get them to change their minds. Insurance is a weird one though, my son;s nursery's insurers increased the premiums when they found out the nursery took autistic children! The owner gave them a piece of her mind and changed insurers.

OTOH- going to a nursery where they are that clueless/unwilling/plain ignorant may not be a good idea. Your friend may be better off looking for a decent caring childminder, or keep trying different nurseries. There are still some decent people out there! She could ask her HV, they often know the good places.

Mind you even though I wasn't using the snotty nurseries I would still write to my MP about my experiences naming them, mentioning the dda, and then copying the letters to the managers. But then these days I'm stroppy!

[Fran1]

HI there,
I used to run a day nursery and as others have said, a nursery cannot discriminate against any child and turn them away. But, they can decide that they would not be able to care for the child's individual needs, and they have every right to do so.
I am sorry i don't know enough about Hirschsprungs disease and its impact on daily life, to know whether the nursery is right or wrong.
But as an example of when you are "allowed" to turn away a child, our nursery had stairs up to the entrance (no lift) therefore we could not accept a child in a wheelchair, unless their parent/carer would carry them up and down the stairs on arrival and departure of nursery.
Basically a nursery should agree to meet with parents prior to joining a waiting list and discuss the child's needs and together decide if it would be the best environment for the child.
Insurance is no issue at all as far as i can see. They should have public liability and cover for all employees and children anyway!

It is true that if a child is statemented, funding will be provided for one-to-one workers, but this is sometimes only for a couple of hours a day. I also think it depends on the area you live. My local authority were very tight with their money and it was impossible to get extra funding for special needs children who weren't statemented. But in a more affluent area it may be a different story!
Sorry to waffle, hope this helps.

[chatee]

Fran1
you say in your message that the parent/carer would have to carry the child up/down the stairs........
but what would happen in an emergency situation???

[Fran1]

Well of course, the staff would carry the child down, if an emergency.

But could not be expected to do it on a daily basis, for health and safety reasons.

[Jimjams]

Although I think under the new legislation (disability discrimination act) all public buildings have to have disabled access now. I know the legislation covers schools.

Also OT departments are able to lend equipment to nurseries. I know a local nursery was able to borrow equipment for this sort of thing when a child with CP attended.

IME the main block on a disabled child attending a nursery is a nursery's attitude. This is why I think although nutcracker's friend should complain she'd be better off going elsewhere.

Anyway for a good example of inclusion in nurseries, DS1 is apparently a case study in the next edition (9 sept?) of nursery world magazine.

[Fran1]

Yes new builds have to have access for wheelchairs, but if it is a conversion this does not have to be done - provided the company can prove it is either impossible or they do not have the funds to do it.

[Jimjams]

Is it easy to get out of though? I know a number of people who are in charge of small businesses in old buildings who are having to do quite costly conversions - disabled toilets etc.

The sad thing is really that if the LEA's provided sensible support to diabled children in m/s nurseries then more may be willing to accept them. We had a continual battle with Early Years when ds1 was at nursery. It was far easier to sort out adequate support once he reached school. I did make the point to nursery world magazine that DS1's nurery owner/manager had taken everything on board herself and received little support.

[Fran1]

The owners of my nursery got out of it because it was a genuine reason. We would have loved to have a lift if it was possible! Not only for wheelchair users but for us carrying babies up and down too!