Rant about work

[myermay]

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[hatter]

Hi there,

totally out of order I would say. Is the training essential for your job? If it is then just tell them that you cannot do it on non-work time. What about child-care? Are you meant to be forking out for that while on this training course? I think they're taking you for granted. I work p-t and would never be expected to do training without being paid - even if it was non-essential. I do work for a very big organization though

[Tinker]

No, no, no! Either they should be paying you overtime AND for the extra childcare expenses or giving you TOIL. Or maybe even allow you some leeway about attending the course. Not an employment law expert - hope sis sees this - and hope there's no loophole they're exploiting hear but this seems WRONG

[gettingthere]

i would ask the citizens advice bureau - i'm not sure but i think this might not be legal if they pay full timers who go on the same course. do you have similar contract to the full timers?

[motherinferior]

Utterly out of order IMO. Is it out of the question just to say well in that case you can't do the training? You can't work three days unpaid. Even without kids it's totally unreasonable.

[eddm]

They can't treat a part-time worker any less favourably than a full-timer. You have exactly the same rights as their other employees (unless there is something odd in your contract of employment and I think that in itself might be construed as discrimination). If this is a training course the employer is sending you on as part of your job they have to pay you. The fact that it is three days actually means you are working over your contracted hours and whatever overtime policy they have will apply, depends on your contract (what is the normal policy about overtime?). If, on the other hand, they are giving you time off to attend a course for private study ? an Open University degree, for instance ? then they don't have to pay you.
Check your contract of employment, take it up with your union, if a member... trying to think of other organisations that might help... Citizen's Advice Bureau? Department of Trade and Industry? Department for Education and Skills? I'd do a ring round until I found someone who could help. Maybe as it's a small company they are just very naive about employment law, or they think they can get away with exploiting their employees.
PS If part-time employees are mainly women, and if part-time employees are treated less favourably, then I think you would have a case for sex discrimination.

[myermay]

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[jac34]

I work p/t and if I have to go to a lecture, training, etc, then I get paid as normal. If it falls on my day off, I don't have to go, but they offer me a day in lou, and as long as I can arrange childcare I go, all expenses paid.
Personally, as you don't get paid and need to arrange childcare, I'd say "No, I can't afford it sorry".
A collegue of mine is a single Mum and was told she had to pay for a course herself then claim it back, she could not afford this so refused to go. Our manager just made a few phone calls, the told her it was alright they would pay up front.

[myermay]

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[Mirage]

Myermay,please don't let them persuade you to go self employed.If you do you will be getting all the disadvantages,with none of the advantages of deciding who you work for & when.

If you are s/e,& are ill,statutory sick pay doesn't kick in until the third day of illness & then is a piddling amount.Also,self employed people get no holiday pay & if there is no work=no pay!

[myermay]

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[littlemissbossy]

I've just read this thread!!! Their behaviour is completely outrageous but appreciate that this happens - when I worked part-time in an office of full-timers I was treated like a second-class citizen!! My advice to you is check out your rights as a part-time employee on dti website (sorry can't get the link to work) www.dti.gov.uk/uk/er/ptime.htm - not a good start to your working relationship is it?

[myermay]

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[sis]

Myermay, I have only just seen this and I am, as ever, impressed that you have had soo much support from other mumsnetters and that you now know your legal position. I am a bit concerned that they do not pay holiday pay - you are legally entitled to it. I assume that they do at least pay statutory sick pay, if not, they should as you are entitled to it. If you want to discuss this in more detail, feel free to contact me via 'contact another talker' above.

[Freckle]

This could be classed as sex discrimination. They are discriminating against you because you work part-time and most part-timers are women, so the law considers this to be sex discrimination. If you go to the CAB, they should be able to give you chapter and verse on the actual legislation.

[Freckle]

Part-time employees
The Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000 aim to ensure that part-time workers are not treated less favourably than comparable full-timers. Principally, this means they should:

? receive the same rates of pay
? not be excluded from training simply because they work part-time
? receive holiday entitlement pro rata to comparable full-timers
? have any career break schemes, contractual maternity leave and parental leave made available to them in the same way as for full-time workers and
? not be treated less favourably when workers are selected for redundancy.

Further information from the DTI website:

here
The law and best practice - A detailed guide for employers and part-timers

Click on part-time work in left-hand column.

[Sparks]

Myermay, you DO have a contract, it's just an oral contract rather than a written one. If you are working for them and they are paying you, then in law you have a contract of employment and you have certain specific entitlements. You can find more information about contracts of employment on the DTI web site .

[myermay]

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[WideWebWitch]

I missed this myermay but agree with everyone, outrageous! They're getting the benefit of the training, you are NOT doing them a favour by attending a course! Just skimmed over freckle's post, yes, they do have to pay you holiday and sick pay too - it's against the law not to. Also, the Inland Revenue has very strict criteria for self employment and it doesn't sound as if you'll meet these. Oh, just read your update, glad you got paid, make sure you get the rest. You could always direct them to the dti website for info on their obligations as employers if you felt cheeky enough. Good luck.