DS being too hard on himself

[dozydrawers]

DS is 7, in Y2, and very able. His teacher has recently raised some concerns that he is being very hard on himself when he can't immediately do something. I am well aware that this is the case and understand how he feels as I have the same personality trait. I have read lots of literature on strategies to help him learn that it is OK to 'get stuck' and the school are keen to help but how do we actually do it? It doesn't seem to matter how many times we tell him that it is fine to ask for help or make a mistake, he just doesn't agree. Some of his classmates are now perceiving his behaviour as being grumpy with them when he is, in fact, angry with himself because he 'should be able to do it'.
Sorry for waffling, any advice gratefully received.

[roisin]

It is vitally important that able children are given tasks to do that they find hard and cannot 'just do' immediately. Learning an instrument is brilliant for this - as you cannot excel without hard work and diligent practice.

But from time to time within school he should be given work that is much more demanding, so that he can be challenged to the point of failure within a safe and secure environment.

It's also important to focus on the process rather than the result and to praise hard work and effort, rather than natural ability, or the end result.

[dozydrawers]

Thank you roisin for you constructive comments. We have a piano and he is on a waiting list for lessons, so I will chase that up. I have no doubt that he will practice hard - once he sets his mind to something he is very focussed.

Have you got experience of the lessons learnt by playing an instrument having a knock on effect in coping with academic 'failure'? I had a long chat with DS last night and he can understand why we worry about him getting angry with himself but can't/won't accept that he shouldn't set such high standards for himself. He is very good at categorising activities as either 1) pointless so no need to try (ie things he is not good at eg football), 2) not important so OK not to be good at (suspect playing the piano might fall into this category as it is not academic) or 3) essential to be the best he possibly can be at all times (ie everything academic). The school have suggested your approach of setting him up to fail - I am not against the idea but really struggle to imagine that it will change what is a very strong personality trait. I think the best I can hope for is him learning how to deal with his own frustrations.

His teacher is very good at praising hard work and effort but, as he always puts in 100%, it is just what he expects of himself anyway.

Any more advice gratefully accepted.

[roisin]

Yes, I do have experience of this. My sons are now 11 and 12.

I think "setting him up to fail" is a rather negative way of expressing it. But it is the way forward, I'm 100% certain.

I'd be happy to chat/discuss more off-board. Feel free to CAT me.

[ShrinkingViolet]

we had this with DD1 - we "made" her have tennis lessons, and after a while when she twigged that everyone in her group were at the saem standard (quite frankly rubbish ) but were all having a good time despite not being any good, that trickled over into academic work. Was a long hard process (couple of years as I recall, tbh I ttry to blank out those years ), but as they get a bit older, it does get easier.

[bloss]

Message withdrawn

[Kammy]

Agree broadly with what everyone has said. My ds has a similar tendency and I have found that persevering with football (he's now OK but nothing special) and tennis have helped him see that others excell in other areas that he doesn't.

Playing the piano has taught that practice, practice and more practice is the only method that yields results, and now this is spilling over into academic work. Funnily enough, cooking has also had some effect. Now he is older and more able to process different views I have also found that talking about the recent studies that showed the magic 10,000 hours of 'practice' is what seperates the good from the brilliant in later life.

And a very sensible teacher also told me that as children mature, they become better able to manage their frustrations.

[jabberwocky]

I would be careful with giving him more challenging things that he may not be able to do. You may wind up increasing his frustration level. Gifted children can be very sensitive and are quite frequently very hard on themselves with a tendency towards perfectionism. This site has loads of references on it.

This is a little long, but has some very good points.

These suggestions for parents and teachers are from Dr. Pat Schuler?s 1999 study, Voices of perfectionism: Perfectionistic gifted adolescents in a rural middle school.

Parents
1.Recognize that your gifted adolescent?s intellectual and emotional characteristics are intertwined and influence each other. Understand that the personality trait of perfectionism is influenced by factors in your child?s environment that impact whether or not the manifestations will be healthy or dysfunctional. Know that perfectionism can be a positive motivator or be a cause of stress for your adolescent. Sensitize yourself to your gifted adolescent?s pressures, at home and at school. Talk with your adolescent about what perfectionism means to you and him/her.

2.Understand and appreciate perfectionism as a personality trait that you may have as well as your adolescent. By recognizing the positive and negative aspects of perfectionism, you can help your child or adolescent pursue excellence, by modeling appropriate responses. Point out positive, imperfect role models in the media to help them understand that no one can be perfect.

3.Learn to set priorities in your life ad help your adolescent to do likewise. Help your adolescent to realize that making mistakes is a learning experience. Model acceptance of your mistakes. Ask, ?What did I/you learn from the experience?? Teach the concept of ?constructive failure? whereby future improvement is dependent on present performance.

4.Set high but realistic standards for yourself. Help your adolescent to have high standards for her/himself, but not to expect others to conform to them. Help your adolescent to understand that time, effort, and not giving up will help him/her reach his/her high standards.

5.Help your adolescent understand that intense frustration and the pain of perfectionism can motivate him/her to become problem-solvers, hard workers, and emotionally healthy. Help him/her to understand that negative emotions are not only normal but need to be expressed in healthy ways.

6.Work with your gifted adolescent to improve self-evaluation skills. Emphasize process and improvement rather than perfect products to encourage intrinsic locus of control. Praise efforts not just successes. Help him/her to understand that worth is not based on others? evaluations of work, but that each student is responsible for his/her behaviors and the consequences.

7.Show your adolescent that he/she has inherent dignity and self-worth, which are unconditional. Avoid comparisons with siblings or peers. Teach compassion for those who are less able.

8.Recognize, support, and nurture your adolescent?s interests or passions that bring enjoyment to him or her. Provide time for creative activities and risk taking with safe opportunities to fail. Focus on the joy of discovery, use humor, and have fun with your adolescent.

9.Teach your adolescent that health is important. Don?t let study interfere with eating and sleeping. Encourage relaxation strategies such as creative visualization.

10.Seek professional counseling if your adolescent is unable to act or becomes fearful of rejection.

[dozydrawers]

Thank you all for your very helpful suggestions, it's a relief to hear of other experiences. I am going to organise piano lessons ASAP and speak to his teacher again next week. I need to know how she plans to challenge him so that I can support his feelings at home.

[roisin]

It is something that takes time to develop and Kammy is right that it becomes easier as they grow older and are more able to manage their emotions.

But it's absolutely right that they do so.

For instance UKMT do a Maths Challenge aimed at the brightest students. (Lots of schools enter just their top sets in yr7 and yr8).

They award medals to the top 40% of participants. But the threshold mark to get a bronze medal this year was just 33% (44 marks out of a possible 135) This is because the exam is so challenging.

Most of the participants will have got 95-100% in their KS2 Maths SATs, so for many this is a totally different experience and some struggle to cope. But it is a very beneficial one for them. (IMO).

[dozydrawers]

I would certainly have found that difficult to cope with (and to be honest, still would now!). I have tried to CAT you, roisin, but as I have never done it before am not quite sure if it has worked.

[mummytime]

There are lots of things which you have to persevere at, I would say that my son has learnt a lot from computer games. You can't be on the leader board first time. Chess is another good one. Puzzle books. Lateral thinking puzzles.
Also make sure you praise him for specifics, so you have really captured the look of a horses head in that drawing. I really like your use of the word shimmering. You explained why the wooden block floated really clearly.

I am going through a similar thing with my third perfectionist child. So don't pretend to have all the answers, but lots of reassurance seems to help. It is weird that some of the brightest children can have very low self-esteem.

[helyg]

Hi Dozy,

I also have a 7 year old DS who is very similar.

He is very used to being top of the class, and not really having to try that hard. SO when he is faced with something which he can't do he tends to become very frustrated and angry with himself.

He is also very good at sport, so is used to being top or near the top at that too.

In fact piano lessons were the thing which brought it to a head. We had a few incredibly grumpy weeks as he realised that although he really wanted to learn to play the piano, he wasn't going to be able to just sit down at it and play perfectly, he was going to need to practice a lot!

Rather annoyingly he is actually also very good at the piano, but at least his teacher constantly gives him new challenges to keep him on his toes (which is something he doesn't always get academically in a class of 30).

I feel it is important for him to learn that it is OK to fail. I was similar to him at school, always bright and came top of the class or very near to it without that much effort. Clutching a bunch of very good A levels I went off to university, and then failed one of my first year exams. It was the first time that I had ever failed anything. I was heartbroken, and it took me a long time to get over it. I think that 19 is a too old to realise for the first time that failing something is not the end of the world. I hope that DS works it out long before that.

[dozydrawers]

Hi Helyg,
You sound just like me, except I have got to my late thirties without failing anything. I came very close in my first year at university and I was heartbroken even about that. I now have a strong fear of failure, which mostly motivates me rather than holds me back, but I would really like DS to learn to cope with it sooner rather than later.
What are your DS's school doing to help him cope with his frustrations?

Mummytime, thanks for your advice. I am hopeful that I will only have to cope with one perfectionist child as DD appears to be very bright but without the perfectionist streak.

[helyg]

Unfortunately school doesn't seem to think that his fear of failure is necessarily a bad thing. I would agree that in some cases it is good as it can motivate you, but on the other hand the longer you go being "perfect" the more frightening failure becomes. I can remember being scared of trying new things in case I wasn't "the best" at them.

DS2 (who is 6) is like your DD, bright but not remotely bothered about doing things "perfectly". But DD, who is 4, I think is going to be more like DS1. She is more confident than him though, so I'm hoping that that will lessen the anxiety.

[Kammy]

I also meant to add yesterday that I think it's really important to praise effort rather than achievement - for instance rewarding a week of good practice or going for a treat after exams rather than when the results are in.

[roisin]

I agree completely with Kammy on rewarding effort and treats after the exams rather than after the results.