The Glass Ceiling - part 3(243 Posts)
This is a continuation of the first two threads.
Please free to join us as we discussed challenges faced by our dcs (and how to kake the best of the giftiness)
Previous thread The glass celining - part 2
var hope you don't mind me stepping in.
opio you've just solved a riddle I coudn't et my head around with dc2. Happy to go and play with other children whilst on holidays, able to develop normal relationship with them but completely cluless within school setting!
Also I agree with the comment that we all need to learn that some subjects are better avoided in some circumstances.
at the child that can't talk about singing because 'it's bragging' though.
I do think that there two different issues there. One is about conforming socially and been able to get along with people. The other is to make friends. These are two different issues imo.
In schools where DC are multiply talented, it isn't "bragging" to perform to the best of one's abilities.
At my DD's school there are children who are quadrilingual (reading/writing/speaking to MT standard) and learning a MFL. In mainstream schools DC do not dare mention those sorts of skills.
Interesting that a person who thinks that very able children can only be friends with other very able children does not want contributions to this thread from anyone whose child is not able enough! I wonder whether is any sort of lesson to be learned here.............
Bertrand - you are welcome to contribute to the thread. But why don't you stay on topic?
I think Bertrand is on topic. It just so happens that her experience, opinions and contributions are a bit different to the ones with able children that for some reason or other find it difficult to make friends and fit in.
But it is interesting to read about other people's opinions and different points of views. As other people have been saying, personality has a lot to do with how easy it comes for some children (able or not) to be able to make friends or not.
As I said before, my son is able and what I would call an outlier (academically and by being bilingual in a tiny school where not having English as your home language is an oddity), but he doesn't struggle socially because of it (just like Bertrand's DS and Lurked's DD).
The fact that Var's DS1 and DS2 are having such a completely different experience about friendship and how easy or difficult it is for them, proves that it has more to do with personality than being G&T.
It is not on topic to say:
My DC whose IQ is at the top end of average but, by virtue of living in a selective county, is at the top end of his cohort at a non-selective school, encounters the same problems as DC whose IQ are at the top of of the population as a whole and are at mixed-ability schools.
Which is what Bertrand is saying. She shows no understanding of probability, statistics or psychology. This is not surprising since maths is, by her own admission, not a favorite subject.
I'm wondering what it means to be able enough.....
I don't agree that because some children are better able to cope with being an outlier, then it means it's all down to personality and nothing to do with ability.
Some issues that are coming with being highly able are very specific and of course, not every child will have those just as not every child has the same abilities.
Also sometimes, being highly able allows a child to spend an inordinary amount of effort on let's say being social so it means that from the outside, they look like they have no issue but actually do struggle. Just like we know that girls with AS aren't showing social issues in the same way than boys. It is much more hidden iyswim.
Elle how old is your dc?
dc1 started like yours (similar situation) but has found it harder and harder as he grew up.
Bobo, At my DD's school there are children who are quadrilingual (reading/writing/speaking to MT standard) and learning a MFL. In mainstream schools DC do not dare mention those sorts of skills.
Not true at my DS's inner city comp. It's something to be proud of there, as is achievement in general. Not all schools are like your DD's.
I know what it's like to have a child who does not fit into the academic demographic of his school. A child who had had to make friends and fit in with others who are significantly less academically able than him, and who are not necessarily interested and informed about the the things that he is interested and informed about. And in a school which is not geared for children like him.
He is now in year 10, is happy, settled and achieving and has good friends. It has taken hard work and lots of different strategies to get him there. I am sorry, Bobo, if you feel that this does not qualify me to contribute. I disagree.
Oh, and "In mainstream schools DC do not dare mention those sorts of skills." is utter, utter bollocks. Scaremongering bollocks.
Bertrand, What I don't really understand is, you say,
"He is now in year 10, is happy, settled and achieving and has good friends. It has taken hard work and lots of different strategies to get him there."
Yet, I don't feel like you are sympathetic towards the people who is actually having problem at the moment.
woodheaven glad to have been of some help - DD is 9 and it's taken me until last year to work it out myself...
Can I ask a question, and it's not one I have an answer to. What would make a difference?
Or, to be more specific, can you think of up to three things that would make school better for gifted children (and I am imagining this as legislation, as nothing makes HTs do anything otherwise)
Thanks Woodheaven. I can't believe this has reached a 3rd thread!
3 things that would make things better
- a culture where achievement is something to be proud off (ie the one of the children who struggle but manage to do xx up to the ones of the very able who can do yy), regardless of the type of achievement (so Im thinking academic success, sport, music etc)
- a culture of engaging children (again regardless of ability) and not having just your eyes on the GCSE/SATS results.
- Space in the day for the children to develop their own interests with a wide range of 'after school activities' ie not just football and badminton. I'm actually pretty sure that offering other things coud actually open horizons for all children involved. dc1 would love an after school activity based on very hand on DT for example.
I could add a few other things that are very much related to MY dc but would probably not be as relevant to others.
I'm not sure if that would be working/enough for those who are really of the spectrum (ie the 1/1000 or 1/10000)
bertrand what did you do with your dc so that he would fi better with his peers?
BertrandRussell are you saying that your DS's learning potential was mis-measured and he is more able than some of the children who went to the grammar? Or simply that he's at the top of the ability range in his current school, but that there are children who are exceedingly close to him by IQ in the same school.
There used to a 13+ I think, Did you look into having him sit that (if it still exists) so that he could be moved into the right stream?
WoodHeaven - my son't school offers all 3. There are schools out there which would answer your needs.
My discomfort with this thread is that it seems to be somewhere to have a moan, but not seek solutions. There are schools which suit outliers. There just should be more like them.
"Yet, I don't feel like you are sympathetic towards the people who is actually having problem at the moment." I'm sorry you feel that way- it's certainly not the impression I intend to create. I am hugely sympathetic to children who find it difficult to make friends- which is why I launched back into this thread once it moves on to the subject. However, II do find it difficult to be sympathetic to parents who suggest that their children should only have friends within their own academic peer group, or who suggest that being very able is, in itself, a reason for social difficulties. I have also come across on occasion a sense that some parents think their highly able children are somehow above the interests of other children- which is positively "fatal",
Other children pick up on this like piranhas!
Mominatrix - there are parts of the country where the range of schools on offer is very limited. Solutions are limited. If you look at statistics about university destinations you quickly work out that there are areas where there are no high achievers at all. Which is awful.
Bert, I don't think nobody is saying "their children should only have friends within their own academic peer group" or "being very able is, in itself, a reason for social difficulties."
Who said that?
I would say that I am extremely lucky, because my DC's mainstream primary and leafy state comp offer exactly what you describe (I particularly liked the club that was, apparently, devoted to spending your lunchtime building accurate scale models of historical stuff. As you do.)
I am sorry that this isn't a universal experience.
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