5 yr DS gifted and talented?

[testbunny]

My 5 year old DS2 (just finished Reception) seems incredibly good at maths for his age. DS1 in Yr 2 has finished his times tables to 12 and DS1 knows them better than him! he is also good at adding subtracting numbers to 100. We have never taught him he just seems naturally keen to learn and have a natural aptitude for maths. DH was school chess champion so I think he must get it from him!

However, his target for the next term in the new school year is 'counting in twos to 20', or something like that. Is there such a thing as G&T anymore? If so, how can I get him assessed? If not, what else can I ask the school to do/give him?

Thanks!

[JustRichmal]

In dd's primary school there were different targets for different abilities. The problem I used to have was because the top level was all they asked dd to do, this was all they knew she could do. I mistakenly thought that when she did the KS1 test they would see she could do more, but was informed they would only do a test above level 3 if her results were very high. Her results were very high, but as they did not get them until the week before term ended, (having done them in March) there was no time to do another test.

I think you have a number of options:

Try asking the school. From other posters, including teachers, the response you get from schools will vary and your school may be happy to differentiate for a child who is ahead of the rest. It may also vary from year to year as he swaps teachers'

Start getting books or finding websites which will let your child learn the whole spectrum of what they do in maths in KS1. Dd loved maths and I used to do quite a lot with her at home.

Let the school continue teaching at the pace they are so that your son learns with the top group in his class as they cover the work he can do already then moves on to new things with them all together when they have caught up.

[BlackeyedSusan]

don't bother about getting him assessed at school [cynical]... but do ask about the target. the year one teacher may pick up on it fairly soon though.

I doubt that the rest of the top group will catch p unless you are lucky and have a few who are good at maths. dd tested two years ahead ion arithmatic but is getting work at her level as she is youngest in year group and there are a few others who are good at maths.

science on the other hand... well they do not test above year group, they also think it is concerning that she is learning about stuff she does not need to know until secondary school, (when she was in year two ) and accused me in so many words of hothousing... shelearned becasue I was dealing with asd and she read toherself on the stairs in the car from 10p books from the library.

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

Dd1 is just finishing yr1. virtually all her targets are thing she already does. the ones when she finished reception were things she could do before she started school.

They didn't just do those this year though so I am not too concerned.

[catkind]

Targets should be something easy to come back on shouldn't they? "Mr X, please can I have a chat about Little A's targets for maths, these are all things he could already do 2 years ago."

[JustRichmal]

catkin: answer from teachers: Not according to our assessment.

[JustRichmal]

(Sorry, missed the d from your name)

[catkind]

In that case please can we have a chat about why DC is underperforming so dramatically in a school situation.
(It's easier to pronounce without the d, I might change it...)

[JustRichmal]

As you may have guessed, I've actually gone through these conversations. The answer there would be, what children do at home and at school is quite different; there are other children more capable at maths and in some lessons she is struggling to get what others understand easily. Or she is near the top, but there are others in the class at the same level. There are also examples of what she does not understand, which she can surprisingly answer when we ask her after the meeting.
Teacher assessment is all that counts, so it's your word against theirs.

[catkind]

Why does the teacher think that what the other children in the class are doing is in any way relevant? Assuming you were asking for appropriately differentiated targets/work and not declaring that DC is a precious and unique flower who needs to be nurtured!

I do believe that what they do at home and school is different. Far more distractions at school. But really hope I don't come up against teachers who actually disbelieve what the parents say. I can imagine some targets say in reading the parents might think they could do but unwittingly have been helping in some way. But counting in 2's is pretty black and white isn't it, either they're doing it or not?

[JustRichmal]

Thing like counting in twos is only ever one small part and there are lots of other reasons not to set higher levels. When they were learning subtracting 9 by subtracting 10 and adding 1 I had a teacher tell me dd could not go on to a higher level because she had checked and dd could not count back from any number under 100 fluently in eights.
The argument of others being at the same level or higherwas to prove dd was in the correct set for her ability and therefore being catered for appropriately.
There is always the option of taking them out of school and letting them take their GCSE. All the pointless discussions of what level they are at disappear.
Sorry, I seem to have gone off at a tangent a bit from the op, who will hopefully have a better response then I did.

[catkind]

Oookaaaay, I can't count backwards fluently in 8s and I have a PhD in number theory. What level am I?
So the targets come in a bundle for the level rather than being specific to what the child can/can't do? Perhaps naively I assumed they set the target to be the next things the child couldn't do on current and next level.

[JustRichmal]

You couldn't make it up
I think every school works differently wrt how they set targets. In dd's primary there were 3 levels of difficulty in what they were set. Any child would be moved on to the next level if they achieved their initial level before the end of that half term. The only problems arouse if they got to the top of the last level; there was nowhere else for them to go, just obscure reasons why they had not achieved it.

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

certainly out of DD's friends that I know the parents all the top group have the same targets. makes them meaningless particularly when you know some of them are doing them extremely easily already and have been for some time and others are just about struggling to start them but they are all in the same group so hey ho they are all identical...

[testbunny]

Thank you for all your responses. Based on these, I don't hold out much hope. I will speak to the teacher at the beginning of next term and see what she says, then report back!

[JustRichmal]

I can sort of see also it is difficult for the teachers with a class of over 30 children to cater for such wide abilities. There have been threads on this forum where people have had more luck. Perhaps you could find some ideas on them of where things have gone right in order to think what outcome would be right for your child. Some have gone into higher year groups, others looked for scholarships to private schools, or others looked for sideways extension such as nrich type problems given in lesson time.
Also, as dd enjoyed maths I used to get the Key Stage revision guides to ensure she was learning in a rounded manner, across the full curriculum.

[George9978]

Justrichmal.

I got Exactly the same answers when I questioned the maths my DD was doing in primary. I was astonished at how low the level was compared to what she could do at home. One teacher went to great lengths to try to prove DD couldn't do complicated maths. Thankfully the next teacher assessed very differently. A bad teacher is dangerous.

I'm cynical now but I believe you have to just do it at home, unless your in every week looking the the books, you don't know it's not at the correct level.

[JustRichmal]

Dd has just got her maths GCSE result: A* when just 10.

Glad I trusted my instincts. No more "Well, level 6 in a test is not actually level 6". DD is so happy that she will now be allowed to progress in maths.

[LittleMissGreen]

JustRichmal, that's fab, well done DD.
I saw on the news how a 10yr old got one of the highest maths GCSE results.

[JustRichmal]

Thank you. I think there are quite a few children who do maths GCSE around this age or even younger. We only decided this was the best option after years of being told dd was not as bright as we thought. Again, I think it is a case of the quiet children who don't make a fuss get overlooked.
We did teach dd maths; she did not just know it. It 's just that she was learning it at home a lot faster than at school.

[PiqueABoo]

Congratulations to your DD and I hope she was suitably thrilled and effervescent over that outcome.

I looked at my DD, her nature, ease with maths and the higher tier GSCE in Y4 and was convinced she could get that by the end of primary without a titanic effort, but by-and-by she took a different path (she got a "GCSE equivalent" in something else). I'll never know now, but I find it very satisfying simply hearing that your DD did that i.e. I wasn't wrong to think it was possible.

Do you have any inkling about how school will respond to your DD's achievement?

[JustRichmal]

I took her out to home educate for 2 years, so her old school don't know. She will start school again soon and her new school is very positive; the response could not be more different.

I wonder how many more children could go at a much faster pace through maths if given the opportunity.

Well done to your dd also.

[rocketjam]

For us the differentiation started to be more obvious from end of year 2/beginning of year 3. \before that, even if DS was very good at maths what he could do at home went far beyond what he could do at school. Now at beginning of year 3 he gets different work in school and at home from the rest of the class. I think it has to do with how they can communicate their skill in a school environment when little, and also because teachers encourage them to learn the basis, which is not a bad idea really. Also a lot of the maths at school is problem based, with sentences, and includes being able to understand the question, it's not just numbers.