Need some advise on how to handle things.....

[Flip]

I posted a thread on here last week about where to find info about single MMR vacines. So got information from JABS.org and called one of the centres. Spoke to several different people about the previous problems ds2 had when immunised at 2 1/2 months, 4 months and 6 months.

I was told that the single jabs were obviously the best course of action as his immune system was obviously very delicate. So paid £50 to register with the Manchester Childrens Immunisation centre and was given an appointment for yesterday for ds2 to have his measles jab. We come from Bolton and there is a a measles epidemic sweeping the area so naturally wanted measles done first.

Arrives at the centre yesterday for appointment. Filled in lots of forms and paid another £90. Went in to see the doctor and after discussing what had happened previously, he refused to give the jab. I understand why he didn't want to do it. It was just a clinic and they had no medical supplies if anything happened. No resus equipment so he was covering himself. But I went to my GP first and asked for ds2 to have the vaccines done in hospital as that's where he ends up anyway and it was refused. Now I've been told by this clinic that he will need admitting to Stepping Hill in Stockport which is about fifty miles from where we live and that we will have to pay for his care.

We aren't well off and it was hard enough to come up with the £140 to register and have the jab. So I don't know what to do now. Do I go back to my GP and have a sit down protest until he acts or do I just take him along to the next clinc at the docs where they do the triple vaccine and hope for the best? Or do I leave him without vaccination and pray that if he gets measles that it isn't to severe?

I have to add that since ds1 had the MMR he has had problems with his behaviour and some autistic traits. He's also had problems with his bowels. So naturally didn't want ds2 to have the triple vaccine. Also should mention that ds2 is almost two and half now and will be starting pre-school shortly.

Any advise?????

[TheBlonde]

Ask the manchester lot for your money back first

[Flip]

Got my £90 back

[alexsmum]

ok- don't know what you should do basically.BUT just wanted to let you know that stepping hill is an EXCELLENT place for immunisations.
both my ds's had their immunisations at the clinic there because of bad reactions. They really are excellent and the immunologist we saw was fab-really fab.he really cared for the boys and did things like give us his mobile no so we could contact him if anything happened and got his secretary to phone the day after a jab to check all was ok.
can't fault them.

[Flip]

Thanks for the reasurance about Stepping Hill. I just feel so confused about what I should do to get him immunised as safely as possible. Although he's had reactions I wouldn't call them life threatening. He was only treated for the first reaction because I didn't know any better and when someone tells you your baby has menengitis let them do everything they can. The second and third times I knew better and that he didn't have menengitis or septecemia and that the non blanching rash, fever and mild breathing problems were side effects. But they make you feel like you're the worst person in the world. I'm ready to go through that again. I'd ideally like them to give him the single measles jab in Bolton hospital on the childrens ward and keep him under observation for twenty four to forty eight hours. But if that can't happen, then the triple vaccine under the same conditions.

Am I asking to much or do I stand my corner?

[Flip]

bump

[thirtysomething]

Stand your corner. You know what's best for your child. If he has these sorts of reactions better to be safe. I cannot comprehend why they wouldn't want to do this if there's an epidemic. Have you tried getting the practice manager/health visitor on your case as they can often pull strings. Honestly, they gripe about children not having the vaccines and then they make you go through this ridiculous ordeal. It isn't acceptable in this day and age and you shouldn't have to put up with it - I bet in London it would be a different story!

[Flip]

The sticking point is the governments stance on the triple jab rather than individual ones. Apparently it's against the law for the NHS to fund individual jabs unless there is a medical reason for its requirment. I'd say it's required. If he's going to have a reaction, I would rather know what it was to rather than it could be one of three!

On the other hand, if he's going to be ill maybe it's better to have the triple jab and get it all out of the way. It's just so much pressure and dh is whatever you think kind of guy.

[drosophila]

What type of reaction did he have previously? Was it an allergic reaction. MY DS had bad reastion to DPT and I was worried for DD so had a meeing with consultant in area (set up by HV) who was relutant to accept DS's raction and did not offer DD a stay in Hosp but did agree to it when I asked.

[Flip]

He developed septecemia non blanching rash, fever and a few breathing problems. Needing hospitalising each time and the first time was treated with IV antibiotics for possible menengitis/septecemia. His digestive system got totally screwed and everytime he had a feed it would go straight through within a matter of minutes. He lost loads of weight and they said it was nothing to do with the jab. Still stuck to that after the second and third times. But then I didn't let them treat him with drugs. Just oxygen and monitoring.

[Chapsmum]

If they feel that those reactions were caused by the immunisations, then you would probably have a fair case for having the single vaccines done on the NHS. IF they feel that he had a "poor" immune respnce then the single vaccine would in theory be less for the immune system to cope with. Why not reason with your GP and ask to be refered to the consultatn (immunologist) ASAP. for his opinion.

[Flip]

But they've always refused to accept it was a reaction and wouldn't document it. They don't really want your feed back when they ask you to let them know if there's any adverse side effects!

I'm really angry because I feel I'm being pushed into just giving him the triple and then rushing to A&E when it all goes wrong. But what's the option? I'm seeing GP tomorrow with a big long list of things and will need a double appointment. I may have a sit down protest if he doesn't appear to be listening.

[edam]

I really wouldn't MMR him, if I was making the decision, based on his reaction to DTP jabs. Wakefield's research found vaccine-strain measles in the guts of autistic children.

Only thing you can do is harass the GP, (good suggestion about HV and practice manager) pointing out ds1's problems and ds2's severe reaction to DTP jabs. He clearly does need to have jabs somewhere where there are the facilities to deal with any adverse reaction. And I'd really, really push for singles from the NHS on this one, there clearly are real medical concerns.

If GP is still reluctant, talk to your primary care trust - they hold the budget and will have a director of public health responsible for encouraging uptake of immunisation.

Do you have any auto-immune diseases in your family, btw?

[Flip]

Thanks for the advise. Am going to break down and cry if I have to. Usually works.

Re auto immune disease, I don't know what it is so I would say no.

[drosophila]

My DS developed a sever rash. More than 90% of his body was covered and it was oozing. He was losing body heat though the skin and it could have been fatal (due to heat loss). They never documented that it was a response to the DPT but the consultant did say it to my face that it probably had been. I did not give him MMR and he did get measles but the measles was not as bad as the reaction to the vac.

I think I would write a letter to you GP stating the adverse affects that you child had and your desire for singles and then deliver it to him personally. Demand the singles and if he won't play ball maybe suggest that you will seek legal advise. DO JABS offer support ?

[drosophila]

Edam's advice better than mine.

[Chapsmum]

You know your child best. Mention to your GP that if our child were to be hospitalised again there would potentially be grounds for neglegence on his part as the possibility of an immunological problem has not been investigated thoughrouly enough for him to dismiss it.

[Chapsmum]

Edam makes a good point however your GP would probably dismiss the Wakefeild research as his study numbers have been so small. However what he cant dismiss is the possibility of your ds having a imminological problem which has become apparent after the diptet jags. would say that this absolutly needs the opinion of the appropriate consuslant and not just GP. INSIST!

[Flip]

Thanks for all the support. Guns blazing tomorrow and I'm going to get up early and put things in writing to so I know he's got all the details.

Thank you so much.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

The red card system is working well in this country isn't it.

Bloody hell.

I was told last week by a HV that I may be able to get a single tetanus jab for ds2 and ds3 on the sly (from the NHS) because of ds1 (who we think is vaccine damaged- he's severely autistic). Apparently the doctor just has to OK it. I have no idea which tetanus jab it is though and if it contains thimerosal I don't want it. Your reactions appear to be far easier to link to vaccines than ours, so I would have thought you would have a good case. There are sympathetic immunologists out there in the NHS. Maybe put a call out to ruty on here, she has seen some helpful people I think.

MMR is of course a different kettle of fish politically anyway, but in your situation I would push for single vaccines in hospital. I would not go for MMR in the GP's surgery, if I went for MMR it would have to be in hospital. I think I would prefer MMR in hospital to singles in a clinic in your case. If you go for any sort of measels jab dose up with vitamin A beforehand as well as all the usual vit c and zinc etc.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

Rd card? I;m colour blind- yellow card. Reporting of any potential adverse reactions I mean.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

Pateints can now report their own adverse reactions. Not sure if this scheme includes vaccinations but you can fill the details in \link{https://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=801\here}

[foxinsocks]

I'm pretty sure no-one bothered with our post-vaccination reactions.

Flip, I would go back to the GP and ask him to refer you to a paed. They will prob be really reluctant to do so - I would then make it very clear to them that if he has the MMR in the GP's surgery, that you will sit there in the waiting room afterwards to make sure he does not have a reaction and that if he does, you fully expect them to deal with it.

I imagine though that because he reacted to the first 3 jabs is no guarantee that he'll react to the MMR but I totally understand why you would not want to take any chances.

Alternatively, ask for a private paed referral (and make sure they/you choose one that does NHS work). I'm sure once the private paed has heard your story they would consider doing the jab on the NHS.