Two more poorly minnows?

[baddyfreckleface]

I have a 90L tank with 5 minnows and 6 danio. It's almost a year old now. I recently lost a minnow as it separated itself from the others, became very thin and its spine seemed to bend.

Two of my other minnows are quite thin but I have given them all a more varied diet and made sure they got food in the rush of danio and they have been eating well.

They both have small lumps on them. I have attached a picture of each. One seems to have a clear bubble-like growth between it's eyes and the other has a bump on the front of its underside.

They both don't look especially healthy but they behave just like the other healthy liking fish.

I am still in the process of slowly replacing all my carbon filter sponges with non-carbon. There are four and all had some carbon in. I was then going to treat with a general health type thing.

All the water tests are fine.

Any ideas?

[EauRouge]

Wow, that is a bubble. It could be gas bubble disease. Have a look at some of the photos here. There's a danio that has a lump like your second minnow does.

Have you tested the water lately? Is there any sort of water movement in your tank, from the filter or an airstone? What is the water temperature? Is there a heater?

[baddyfreckleface]

The water tested fine a few days ago (I am out and can't remember exactly). The heater is set at 22-23 ish and u haven't changed it recently. The filter puts the water back in like a little waterfall type thing and so the surface of the tank is constantly being disturbed. No air stone

[baddyfreckleface]

The bubble does look like the danio with gas bubble disease although I don't know how it got that as I do try to make sure the water is a similar temperature to the tank water when I put it in

[EauRouge]

It might be a problem with your tap water then. I would start aerating any new water you put in. Leave it for a day with an airstone running in it to make sure there's not tons of nitrogen in the water. If you haven't got space to leave it for 24 hours then you could heat it up to release some of the gas, but make sure you let it cool off again before you put it in the tank.

[baddyfreckleface]

Do I need to keep an eye out for it on the other fish then?
I usually put some boiling water in the bucket and then fill it with cold to make sure the water isn't freezing cold. Would that count as heating the water slightly or could that be the cause of it? I have only done that in winter as the water has come out of the tap so cold.

[EauRouge]

Yes, I would keep an eye on the rest and do the water changes as soon as possible.

No, you would need to heat all of the water a bit more to release the gas. You don't necessarily have to boil it but you need to heat it up hotter than the water in the tank to do the job. I don't think adding the boiling water to the cold would be the cause of the problem, that's what most people do for water changes.

[baddyfreckleface]

Well so far so good with the bubbly minnows but now I have a miserable one hiding out in the same corner as the one I had to euthanise. It's not eating and its fins are all close to its body but it has no bumps.

I tested the water again and it's consistantly
Ph 6
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0.
I am down to one filter to replace before I am carbon free and can put any general tonic stuff in. But I really want to keep that in for a few weeks as the last two ivy cane out a week ago and I want to make sure j have enough good bacteria.

Any ideas/advice? I was feeling all proud because I hadn't lost any after a year but now it's all going wrong!

[baddyfreckleface]

Just wanted to add - I followed the advice above and did a 40% ish water change replacing it with heated and then cooled water

[EauRouge]

If the fish is already ill then there's not much more you can do- just keep doing what you are doing.

Bit curious that the nitrAte is zero, it is normal to get areading for that. is your tap water nitrAte zero?

[baddyfreckleface]

Thanks for your reply. Tap water does measure at 0 too. Is that good or bad?

[EauRouge]

It's fine that the tap water is zero, that's exactly what you're looking for. Is your tank very lightly stocked? The zero nitrAte in the tank is probably because of all the extra water changes you are doing.

The nitrAte level needs to be kept as low as possible with regular water changes, anything under about 30ppm is usually fine. As nitrAte is the end result of the nitrogen cycle you will usually get a reading of more than zero in most tanks. But if the tank is lightly stocked and heavily planted, or if there's been a recent water change then you might get a zero reading.

[baddyfreckleface]

Ok thanks.

It's 90L and has 6 Danio and 5 very small minnows. I have one plant and the rest are fake because it's in a very dark corner and nothing much is happy in there.
I change about 20-30% water every week but very rarely get a reading above 0

[EauRouge]

Did you say your filter also had zeolite in it?

[baddyfreckleface]

Yes it does. The only ones I can get to fit either have carbon or zeolite. That won't remove any medicine I put in will it?

[EauRouge]

No, pretty sure it just absorbs ammonia but it means that your filter will never establish a colony of bacteria because the zeolite is absorbing all the ammonia. This means that you have to keep on replacing the zeolite indefinitely. If you just had plain sponge then you'd only need to replace it about once a year or less, whenever it starts losing its shape.

If you can't buy a sponge the right size then it's fine to cut one to shape (as long as it isn't squished in). You could get one like this and just cut off as much as you need. Then there's no need to keep replacing sponges every few weeks and you'll get a more accurate idea of what's going on in the water when you test.

[baddyfreckleface]

I did try to replace the filters with sponges but they sort of have to slot into a narrow upright position and I couldn't get them to slot in. These have plastic frames so they slot into place.

I am annoyed I bought this set up to be honest. I might look into another filter at some point.

I didn't realise that I won't get any of the good bacteria with this filter. They obviously know how to make money!

Does it mean then that a fish less cycle isn't needed with this kind of set up? I'm not setting up a new tank, just wondered if it would be ok as a filter for a spare tank if I need it to be set up quickly as a quarantine tank of something.

[EauRouge]

Yes, a zeolite filter is fine for a hospital or quarantine tank. Ideal really, because you don't need to keep it running all the time to preserve the bacteria.

And yes, aquarium companies sure know how to make money It's becoming easier to find information that's not from someone that's going to make money off you, but it'll take a while for the general public's knowledge of fish to catch up.

[baddyfreckleface]

So I have just checked the small book of instructions on the general tonic and the medicine for lack of appetite type illnesses and they both say in brackets at the end to also remove any zeolite from the filter.

So I still can't treat them?
I think I have another minnow (not the bumpy ones, they seem ok) on the way out now. He's not eating at all.

May be another clove oil bath I think as starving to death isn't a good way to go really is it

[EauRouge]

Oh no, that's a shame :( Sorry your fish are still struggling. I'm sure there are some types of medication that can be used with zeolite, but I've never had zeolite in any of my tanks so I'm not 100%...

I'm still trying to figure out how the supersaturation occurred in your water. Do you know where your tap water comes from? Has there been any work done on pipes recently? Normally your water company will warn you about this but their only responsibility is that tap water is safe to drink.

[baddyfreckleface]

No reports of any work on the pipes etc.
I am South Yorkshire and just had a look at the report. I have attached a photo of the main bit.
Also wondered why my PH is 6 ish if the tap water PH is 7.73? Not that it matters I suppose.
The minnow I lost and this one just seem to stop eating. It's almost like they can't see the way they ignore the food. This one also bumped into the filter pipe a couple of times when I was watching it. Although the eyes look fine as far as I can see.
All the Danio look as fit as ever though so seems just the minnows that are struggling

[baddyfreckleface]

Sorry forgot to attach this