Tips and links for those practicing Intermittent Fasting (IF). 5:2 or Alternate Day Fasting (ADF)(270 Posts)
This is where those posters who have been IFing for a while can pass on any tips they may have on how to get the best out of this new WOE (way of eating).
It's also where you should post any new links on the subject that you come across - and would just get buried in a very long thread.
I just wanted to get this thread underway, so that GreenEggs can link to it in the new 5:2 thread (the 5th in just 2 months!) that's she is currently planning.
I have no rules, other than sticking rigidly to 500 cals or fewer on fast days. I don't always eat particularly healthily and I don't avoid white carbs. Today I had tea with milk, a low cal hot chocolate and one slice of bread, toasted and spread with tomato sauce, with two grilled fish fingers. I eat what I want on eating days, but don't go mad. I'm doing ADF and have gone from 11 stone to 9 stone 11, so it is working. I think white carbs do make you hungrier, but I can cope with that on fast days.
I dont avoid white carbs either on food days - but then I adore pizza and past and bread!
Just to add - when I say I don't have white carbs at dinner that is true...however the either/or breakfast lunch is often a cake! But cake isn't pasta/rice/bread/potats so it's fine! ;-)
Sun 09-Sep-12 13:19:15
Found this guy while doing 5:2 research though you might like to have a look. He has been doing it for years and wrote "Eat Stop Eat"
[From Herrena Fri 07-Sep-12 17:31:16]
I think someone asked a question on the previous thread about IGF1... by a curious coincidence I used to work on the receptor for that hormone!
The receptor for IGF1 is massively overproduced in many cancers, with the result that the cancer cells are very responsive to the hormone, thus growing faster than normal cells. This links in with the IGF1-deficient people featured in the Horizon documentary; they don't produce the hormone and so don't grow large, but they also don't develop full-blown cancer. I think that's because even if they did develop cancerous cells, they wouldn't get the chance to grow fast because there's no hormone about.
In the documentary there was some mention of the fact that decreased protein intake led to decreased production of IGF1, thereby driving the body into 'fix-it' mode rather than 'growth' mode (these aren't official terms, I'm paraphrasing). So logically those people who are doing this for health benefits such as increased production of neural cells probably ought to reduce protein intake, or at least not have too much of it for the last meal of the day.
Confusingly, there are also studies showing that low-carbing long-term will also extend your life-span significantly (worms lived twice as long). Maybe it activates the same sort of 'fix-it' mode as ADF, who knows.
Good job with all the links, I have found them v interesting.
Re your above post:
What is the receptor for IGF-1 that you mention? Is it Estrogen? I have done some basic googling on links between and IGF-1 and lung cancer and found a paper claiming that that the estogen receptor and IGF-1 upregulate the progression of NSCLC. Is estrogen receptor the only one or are there many receptors?
The amount of protein intake seems to me to be a tough one to gauge, especially if one is doing a fairly high level of aerobic exercise in conjunction with IF. I'm keen to see more research in this area on how much to take, what kind of protein to take and when to take it. All seems a bit inexact at the moment.
One more question, on the main thread do you know where the idea of doing a 16hr fasting period comes from? I don't recall any reference to this practice on the Horizon prog.
Hi skippy! Thanks for that - I feel that all the research should be in one place, otherwise it'll just get lost.
Your first question you should address to Herrena, who first posted that info. Might be best to PM her since I haven't seen any activity from her recently.
About protein intake, if you follow the link I gave on the 8th October, to The Fasting Connection, it leads to a discussion about the levels of protein. .8 of a gram of protein per kilo of body weight seems to be the agreed level - although the Fast Doctor (it's his forum) says that's too high.
The 16 hour fast question has been answered on one of the earlier threads - I'm hoping I've got it somewhere to link to it. Perhaps later today.
Thanks Breadandwine. Apologies I should have noticed that the IGF-1 info was a copy of a posting from Herrena.
0.8g of protein per kg of body weight seems fairly generous.
Please don't worry about finding the ref to the 16hr fast idea, I'll go trawling thru the other posts myself.
OK skippy - although I have some info here on the 16 hour issue since others may be interested:
Laska42 (Wed 22-Aug-12 15:07:33) said:
"I may have this wrong but I believe what Dr M was saying is that you should go 16 hours with no food at all , to give your body time to go into cell repair mode.
So 500 cals on a fast day (I think he said the optimal is only 400 for a woman , but I don't think I can do that right now) and then eat your last meal so that you have time to make up 16 hours of no eating over night to reduce the amount of insulin in your body and stop cells from being in 'Go go' mode ..
Perhaps some one else who's been doing it longer can clarify / confirm"
Important article here on how fasting helps combat cancer.
Thanks again Breadandwine. I don't recall any mention of a 16hr non eating period on the Horizon prog. My understanding was that on a fasting day Dr M ate his 600calories at any time of day either spread out or all in one go.
The Dailymail article/link is also interesting. Hopefully IF will prevent cancer in the first place. Not sure if I could handle IF and chemo at the same time, although some chemo drugs go a long way to ensuring you don't want to eat at all without you making any intentional effort to fast.
No worries, skip!
I don't remember MM mentioning 16 hours, either. But I have seen other comments/reasons which I was hoping to include - I've got them somewhere, and I'll post them when I find them.
It's beginning to seem as if most of the ills that afflict us in later life can be cured or ameliorated by fasting. What effect would this have on the NHS and caring if fasting became mainstream?
The only people who would suffer would be those in big pharma! Remember what MM's wife (a GP) told him, " This means that you'll never have to take tablets!"
On a personal note, I thought I'd do the balance test featured in the Horizon prog, this morning, 'Standing on one leg, eyes closed'.
I managed 21 seconds on my right leg - and 28 seconds on my left before I got bored and stopped. Not bad for a bloke my age!
I do a lot of balancing as part of yoga and yes, its hard, but INCREDIBLY good for your vestibular, circulation and musculoskeletal systems
To make the balancing harder, with eyes shut, S-L-O-W-L-Y raise your arms out sideways (or all the way up if you can) and back down ....
Thanks, TP2, I'll try that and report back.
Here are a few more links I've found on the first thread:
alfiemama Wed 08-Aug-12 11:18:52
Found this link which is interesting.
hopkinette Wed 08-Aug-12 13:34:55
nutritiondata.self.com/ is a fantastic website that someone linked me to, which lets you search for about a million different foods and gives you a huge range of values for them - not just calorie count but also protein, sodium, and shitloads of other information.
From Dr Mosley's Twitter feed:
Interview with Professor Mark Mattson (May 2012) on the link between fasting and disease prevention
BAW really like this thread , which I'd forgotten about .. well done for putting all this in one place ..
That article from PUFAS and Fructrose Really interesting
Some interesting research on the BBC news website today:
I appreciate that this study is not about long term fasting but could these findings be one of the reasons why 5/2 fasters aren't losing the weight they expect in the first few weeks of 5/2 IF?
Another link to a blog with some v interesting articles on the subject of fasting, this one in particular caught my eye as so many people on these pages seem to be coming at IF from the angle of how much can I get away with eating, when really the benefits of IF come from the fasting itself.
That's a great link, skippy, thanks. It's made me rethink my MO - I've got in the habit of eating late on the evening before I fast (didn't last night), and then eating about 6.30 or 7.00 on the next day.
For further reference Mark Butcher's blog is here and his questioning was based on 5:2 IF:
Interesting to note that in the horizon prog Dr M states that "(prof)Mark Mattson doesn't think it matters when you eat your calories on a fast day" but in Mattson's e-mail reply in the blog he advocates the one meal per day approach
I've referred to your links on the main thread - it's pretty important stuff!
In the light of this, skippy, I went 22 hours from eating on Tuesday evening to dinner on Wednesday - without feeling hungry at all. I would have done the full 24 hours, but my wife wouldn't let me go out without a meal inside me. I didn't want to upset her, so I had my dinner (a plateful of chilli with a baked potato - 274 cals altogether).
I came home around 11 after a game of cards with some mates feeling on top of the world - I had so much energy I was almost buzzing. I went to bed at 1.30 and now I'm up again, can't sleep.
Here's a health study:
"The effects of intermittent or continuous energy restriction on weight loss and metabolic disease risk markers: a randomised trial in young overweight women"
I smiled when I read you did a 22hr fast. Yesterday was a fast day for me too and after reading that e-mail I too thought I'd skip dinner, and did so with out too much discomfort although wasn't a very active day.
I've skim read your link to the research paper. From my layman perspective that looks like a good study. Interested to read that only just over half of the IER group thought they would continue with the regime after the 6mth study. I guess the goal is to find a comfort level with IF that we can all achieve and stick to that provides health benefits, as Dr M was seeking to do. Hard core fasting obviously has the best health benefits but is not so achievable.
I wish my wife shared the same concerns as yours re going 24hrs without a meal. Mine just shakes her head and rolls her eyes when I mention I'm hungry or comment on good smells coming from the kitchen...
Total Daily Energy Expenditure. More important to know than your BMR (Basal Metabolic rate)
The following link takes you to the history of someone who started various forms of Intermittant Fasting. He started with a pretty low body fat % of 10 and dropped to 4%
ideal weight calculator Interesting link as it takes into account frame size and tells you how to work out your frame size using your wrist.
Hi all, following on from the link I posted last night. At the end of each chapter of the report, people are able to post comments, some of which are very useful/interesting. After Chapter one discussing WHY I.F., is the following link:
Nothing much new there BUT it is a good summary for anyone looking to make a decision about following this WOE (way of eating) or not.
Apologies if this link has already been posted
I was too lazy didn't have time to check
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