How much ballet/dance training?

[Oakmaiden]

Starting a new thread, had one on a similar theme 6 months ago... But things have moved on since then, happily! Old thread.

I will start from near the beginning, though!

Following concerns about my daughter's slow progress in ballet, and desire to study ballet seriously, we spoke to her dance teacher. Now, to be honest, the result has been a bit mixed. Her teacher is absolutely supportive of dd's desire to go to dance school, although thinks that the time is not quite right for her as she needs to work more on her strength and flexibility, as well as improving technique. With her support we are considering looking at Yr 9 entry. However, at the current time all she is able to offer in the way of extra lessons is one private lesson a week, focussing on aforementioned strength and flexibility. I am a bit disappointed in this ,as it was intimated that dd might be able to join the grade above and below for classes, but apparently this is not possible.

That said, with the knowledge of both teachers, dd has started ballet with a teacher who comes into her prep school to teach - so she is now doing 2 G3 RAD lessons a week with her new teacher. So her current ballet is 3 lessons a week and one private strength lesson. She should be taking G2 ISTD in June, as well as G3 RAD and presumably will have an extra ballet lesson with her main teacher in the run up to that.

Alongside this she is taking G3 tap and modern next week, so has been doing 2 lessons a week in each of these, as well as having group rehearsals for tap and song and dance for the All England Regional finals.

Now I've typed it out, it all sounds OK, doesn't it? I think I am getting a bit twitch because until a couple of weeks ago she was having an additional 4 solo lessons every week (ballet, modern, tap and lyrical) but they have now stopped and won't recommence until August probably. And she has been making huge progress generally, but I am worried with the sudden drop in hours she is going to stall a little.

So, wise people who advised me in November, what do you think? This this sound better/sufficient for her to prepare for vocational school? How much dancing do children in the first year of vocational school do? Does anyone know?

[laughingcow13]

A good few years back but a friends son was accepted into the Royal Ballet school and only did one class a week.She said they were looking for potential not how much ballet they could actrually do already.Whe he started training there , it was built up very gradually.
As I say though this was quite a long time ago so might not be currently appropriate advice.
Is it not a bit of a waste of money to use a private for conditioning? surely she could (and should be) doing this at home

[taxi4ballet]

Laughingcow13 - that might have been the case a few years ago, and for boys they will look at potential as much as at current level of training, but...

For girls, who far outnumber boys in auditions, there will be hundreds and hundreds who have both potential and a higher level of current training, and the competition is incredibly stiff.

Oakmaiden, which schools will your dd be thinking about auditioning for? Depending on whether they are mainly ballet (RBS, Elmhurst) or with a wider range (eg Tring, Hammond) then that might influence whether she increases ballet or reduces tap or festival work to make room in her schedule.

Something else to bear in mind is that the main intake for the vocational schools is at 11, so there may only be the odd handful of places available in the year groups above that.

[alinacj]

It is possible to catch up, and people have done this, but I wouldn't know unless I saw your dd's dancing whether that was enough for her. Vocational schools are very competitive. What is it makes you think she has what it takes? Hope that doesn't come across as rude. Does she have amazing feet, beautiful classical style etc etc that makes you/she think she might have potential.

Flexibility is more difficult again at this age, but also not impossible to achieve by any means. Only this would have been easier/better sorted out years ago.

[dancestomyowntune]

Personally, if she isn't looking to go away at the present time I would think that the best option would be to look again at 16, when there are many more places and a wider range of colleges to look at, as well as the funding being more widely available.

My dd dances to a high level and with children who have been accepted to Elmhurst/Tring/Hammond and one girl who is currently in year 8 at the RBS. My dd didn't audition at eleven because she couldn't contemplate being away from home, she simply wasn't ready for the boarding. She is very clear that she will try for a vocational place at 16. Her friends who have gone away at eleven have all been at a high standard before going. We are talking grade5/6 RAD and all have already been doing pointe work and ready for if not already taken, the Interfoundation exam. And even then they haven't necessarily been accepted at the school they are most keen to go to.

[alinacj]

Is it not a bit of a waste of money to use a private for conditioning? surely she could (and should be) doing this at home

I'd second this. Though one of our ballet schools has separate limbering classes.

[Oakmaiden]

OK, useful thoughts, thanks.

Her teacher feels she has the potential, physique and trainability that schools are looking for. Actually her teacher said she thought she would have a fair chance at Elmhurst, but not White Lodge. However, until very recently she was only doing 45 mins of ballet a week, sometimes not even that due to a series of quite complicated circumstances.

The flexibility is an issue. It is odd, because about 5 years ago she was reasonably flexible, but was having weird problems with pelvis/hip pain. She went to see a paediatric Physio who said she had an enormous flexible range - much larger than she normally saw (I think she said hyper flexible) but suggested that dd was careful not to do any hip stretching type things (including sitting with crossed legs) until they worked out the cause of her pain. So the pain eventually passed, they never worked out what was causing it, and dd had become a lot less flexible. Until recently she hadn't made any effort to regain her flexibility, but with work it should be possible.

As far as using the private lessons for conditioning goes - well, yes. I had been thinking this recently. DD does practice the exercises she does in her private lesson every day (well, nearly every day!), but I am thinking of talking to her teacher about putting more technique in the classes to supplement the conditioning. It does work out better than the class limbering though, because this is tailored very specifically to her needs.

However, we shall have to see as far as vocational school goes. She was certainly not ready to audition for entry for this September, and so has missed the main intake. There is no way around that. If she still wants to she can apply for entry in year 9, but she knows that there is no such thing as a certainty. If she doesn't get in then, and still wants to, she can try again for Sixth Form. But having made the decision we weren't going to push her for this year, I do want to give her the chance to make the best progress she can. Hence wondering how much dance children who DO go the places like Elmhurst do in the early years there.

[JemimaPuddled]

I'm wondering how old she is? To be doing grade 2-3 ISTD id assume 9 or 10?

[alinacj]

The only person I know who went to Elmhurst did very little dance. Just the once a week type class, but didn't then go on achieve potential, or the necessary technique, and ended up doing bits of cabaret dance before a complete career change into admin.

Good dancers I know who applied for RB and the like at 11 have been ahead, similar to scenario I think dancestomytune mentions. They all do lots of classes, though, some into festivals and other dance genres, others not. But all seem to have private lessons and extra classes. All very very dedicated and hard working and determined.

You hear about people doing the one class a week being picked out on potential, but that must be so rare nowadays? And I'd say that would apply more to associate class auditions than vocational school auditions.

Good luck to your daughter. I do hope she succeeds. It is certainly possible.

[alinacj]

Oh yes, associate classes/ That might be a good idea

[Oakmaiden]

Jemima - actually she is 11 (in year 6 at school). That is what the original thread was about. Her dance school haven't been doing many grades, so she is behind on them.

[Oakmaiden]

Alin - we were hoping to look at associates, but probably not until next September. I think she will have missed all the auditions by now for this year.

[taxi4ballet]

Hypermobility can be a positive advantage for ballet dancers , but it needs to be controlled with core strength training, and correct technique (my dd is hypermobile too).

Have you thought about looking for a specialist dance physio who would be able to advise on this? Regular doctors and physios are good but might not have the specialist knowledge of the specific needs of dancers as they don't come across them all that often.

[JemimaPuddled]

Associates would probably be a good way to go. Well worth doing the rounds of open days and the like if you've not already done that, it gives you a feel for it all and you'll see whether it's right for her. I agree it's not necessarily all about grades; however sound technique and style are essential. there can be many more opportunities at FE / 6th form level, and far more avenues through which to pursue it. Keep all doors open!

[dancestomyowntune]

I must say, my dd has a friend at Hammond and she does less dance in a week than my dd does. The RBS friend I think does a couple of hours a day.

I think it is possible to not be as advanced in training and still be offered a place, but highly unusual. Easier for boys than girls I would assume.

[Oakmaiden]

taxi - I had thought about it, actually. It is on my "something to think about" list :)

dances - your daughter does 2 or 3 hours every day, is that right? I think I would like dd to get to a place where she is doing something dance related every day - and indeed over recent weeks she has been, but not much of it has been ballet focussed, and now the festival is over she is automatically dropping 6 hours a week - and once her exams are over next week that will be another 2 hours a week gone too.

Ho hum...

[dancestomyowntune]

My dd dances every day yes, but not at a vocational school (although she may as well be... I never see her!).

This is her current schedule:
Monday: 45mins body conditioning, 1 and a half hours intermediate ballet, 1 hour group rehearsal
Tuesday 45mins jazz, 45 mins Greek, 45 mins tap, 45 mins student programme (can be anything, at the moment it's extra jazz for an exam).
Wednesday 45 mins grade 7 ballet, 1 hour 15mins intermediate ballet, 1 hour pas de deux.
Thursday 1 hour tap 1 hour group rehearsal
Friday 1 hour song and dance, 1 hour modern, 45 mins tap, 45 mins group rehearsal
Saturday 1 hour intermediate ballet, 45 mins body conditioning and then anything up to five or six hours of group rehearsals/private lessons.
Sundays are a mystery! Some weeks she is at the studios from 9am-6pm, some (rare!) weeks we have the day off.

Then at school she does dance club Thursday lunchtimes too, and choir. I don't know how she does it but the more she does the more she wants to do and the better she gets. And to be honest at least I know where she is and that she isn't hanging around getting into trouble!
She is 12. Has been dancing since she was 2. She i currently doing 9 festival solos, 1 duet and 17 group dances, almost all of which have qualified for the All England Regional finals.

My eight year old son (who wants to go to elmhurst when he is 11 if he can) does:
Mondays 45 mins ballet
Tuesdays 45 mins jazz
Wednesday 30 mins Greek
Fridays 30 mins modern, 30 mins tap, 30 mins song and dance
Saturdays 45mins ballet and 45 mins body conditioning.
He is in four group dances and probably has 2hours most weeks rehearsals and maybe an hour of privates for his 3 solos and 3 duets.

My 5 year and 7 year olds do two ballet classes a week, street jazz, modern, Greek, tap and song and dance. Both are in two groups each and the seven year old has 1 solo and the five year old has one solo but is about to learn two more.

This is why i am poor!

[balletgirlmum]

Your dd sounds very like my dd was 2 years ago oak maiden (even down to the flexibility /hyper mobility issues)

Due to various reasons her mass took grade 2 aged 9 then spent over 2 years in grade 3. She did 1 45 min ballet class per week plus 1 tap, modem & jazz. She was behind. In year 6 she did two terms of monthly RAD associates.

At the very very last minute (just before may half term) she auditioned for vocational school & to our surprise got in. Children also joined in year 8 so it is possible.

It is theballet you need to concentrate on - other stuff can come later. You asked what the timetable is like in the first year of Vocational school. It reads something like this
Mon 1x 90 min morning ballet
1x 60 min afternoon ballet
1x 60 min tap
Tues 1x 90 min morning ballet
1x 60 min modern
Wed 1x 60 min ballet
Thurs 1x 90 min ballet
1x 60 min street
Fri 1x 90 min ballet
1x 60 min ballet
1x 60 min tap
Sat 1x 60 min pilates
1x 60 min modern
1x 60 min creative

In ballet they are mostly working at intermediate foundation level.

[balletgirlmum]

It changes slightly in year 8, by year 9 they are expected to be working at Intermediate or above.

[MomOfTwoGirls2]

Can you ask for a daily conditioning exerise plan to work on flexibility?
DD2 does ballet and Gymnastics. Gymnastics provides a conditioning exercise sheet. DD2 works hard to maintain her flexibility. It benefits her ballet as well as her gymnastics.

[balletgirlmum]

It's very expensive but I can greatly reccomend the Lisa Howell flexibility programme.

[lottieandmias]

Ballet is so very competitive, you don't get paid much if it becomes your career and even if you went to the Royal Ballet School you may still be assessed out, year on year. I know of several girls who got into White Lodge and only one has had a successful career. Another was done by 21 because of injury. I'm sorry to sound negative but I think for someone to want to go to a ballet school they must love it with a passion like no other and be very talented as well. Because it's not like it's even well paid.

[Dancingdreamer]

If you want to work on flexibility, is there a rhythmic gymnastics club nearby? (please note not normal gymnastics). Rhythmic coaches specialise in increasing flexibility and core strength due the demands of the sport. They are well used to dealing with kids with hypermobility syndrome as most successful rhythmic gymnasts will be somewhere in the scale.

I know some rhythmic clubs do run specialist classes for dancers who want to work on their flexibility.

[taxi4ballet]

If she has had issues with injury before (which may have been down to hypermobility) it would be really beneficial to get her assessed by a dance physio before she starts on any flexibility training, because there may be some things she needs to work on more than others, and some exercises she should avoid like the plague!

[balletgirlmum]

I agree with taxi.

Dd had a big problem with proprioception because she had learnt the wrong muscle memory (shoulders able to go right back) & this affected her balance & core stability.

[Oakmaiden]

dances - which All England region are you in? We are off to Cheltenham with a couple of group dances.