Suzuki Method for piano

[shipsladyg]

Does anyone have any experience of this they can share? It looks very interesting...

[tunaday]

I think it's a really great method of learning an instrument Ships. It works on the same things we do unconsciously when we learn to talk. We repeat things over and over, memorise them and build on our vocabularly bit by bit. You do need a skilled teacher who totally knows the method and how to teach it. Until around book 4 there is no use of written music. Everything is done by imitation just as we learn to speak by copying what we hear.

The younger a child learns the better. Around 3 years old is ideal. The more compliant and placid a child is too, the better!!!! I took my ds to a suzuki violin group at 3 and she wasnt having any of it. She just disrupted the lessons so I had to take her out!LOL In the end she started 'normal' piano lessons aged 8 and did a lot better.

Suzuki method also needs the child's parent/carer etc to learn alongside them. You would sit in on lessons so you will know what the practice consists of. At first 5 mins a day practice (best to do short sessions) building up gradually to 10 etc etc. It can get 'results' very quickly and works on the assumption that any child who can learn to talk can learn an instrument. The child learns real 'tunes' immediately which is really rewarding and fun and the more fun and progress they make the more they should want to carry on learning. Anything that encourages a child to learn an instrument is wonderful I think. Even if they don't go on with it, just having the discipline and experience of learning an instrument and being exposed to 'classical music', for how ever long is something that is life enhancing and valuable.

Way way back in the 1970's (I'm 51), I was lucky enough to go to a Shinichi Suzuki and Yehudi Menuhin demonstration that the peripatetic violin teacher at my school arranged for all his pupils' to go to. I've got a dreadful memory but I havent forgotten the impact it made on me, not to mention the disbelief of hearing 3 and 4 year olds playing perfectly a piece that I'd struggled with for ages with was still making a total mess of!!!!!

Would totally recommend giving it a go.

[tunaday]

Sorry, forget to say that I was 13 when I heard the 3/4 year old Suzuki violinists blitzing the piece I was learning!!!! I didn't know whether to be gobsmacked or furious! Both I think!!!!!LOL

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I have a friend who sends her DS to a suzuki school for piano. He is doing really well. The parent needs to put in a lot of effort though! If I have more energy I would send DS2 to suzuki school. As it is I teach them both myself with a mixture of suzuki music and "conventional" approach (DSs are readers - they cannot be prevented from reading music)

and I have to say, suzuki is amazing. They can do so much more than you imagine. Or maybe I have limited imagination ...

[pianomama]

Sorry but Suzuki doesn't work well for piano.. Or prove me wrong and name one professional soloist pianist taught by Suzuki method.. It seem to work for strings better.. up to a point.Its great being able to play by ear because it teaches kids to listen straight away to the SOUND which western methods tends to luck at the beginning BUT .. there is a point where it just stops working ? Open to criticism and eager to learn .. To me it is like a fad diet - achieve you goal quickly , would not last , can cause bigger problems long term .. ??

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Not a defender of suzuki method, but:

• How many piano students become professional concert pianists? Suzuki philosophy is that all children can be very good ("well-educated", I think, is the term, maybe. Must read up again ...) I rather like these philosophies that does not take "talent" into account, but that simply teach, and assume that people can be taught. (Also I suspect nobody sticks to one method after a certain level ...)
  

• There are good suzuki teachers and bad suzuki teachers.
  

• Suzuki does not preclude reading music.
  

Not that I know that much about Suzuki. I learned by "traditional method" but am teaching the kids with any old method that sounds like a good idea, and the emphasis on good musical sound and good musical memory can't be a bad thing.

[PushedToTheEdge]

The advantages of Suzuki (playing from memory, uniformity, rules, standard interpretation) is great for getting children started but once they get to about Grade 3 (assuming you do ABRM/Trinity grades at the same time) then it will hold the child back from developing as a musician.

Re developing a good musical memory is great .... in the begiining. But as an advanced student you will be expected to sight read well. Suzuki does not prepare you for this.

[PushedToTheEdge]

"Suzuki does not preclude reading music"

Yes it does. Suzuki teachers encouraging playing from memory. Using music is frowned upon by the diehard fans of the method

[maggiethecat]

Pushed, I'm not sure if the Suzuki teachers I have encountered are purists but I know that their students do ABRSM grade exams. One had a 9 yo girl at about grade 5 who is now off to Purcell so I'm not sure if some of what is written is myth or if the teachers I know are non conformist.

[PushedToTheEdge]

maggie - I'm not saying that Suzuki teachers don't let their students do ABRSM exams :) I'm just saying that improving your DCs sight reading skills or interpretive skills is not top of their list of priorities.

DD would go away and experiment and the teacher would pull her back and get her to perform the piece the Suzuki way.

I accept that a young child needs to lean to play an instrument properly which often means learning the 'standard' way. But for us it got to a point where DD was playing in the same robotic style as the other students.

[pianomama]

I wonder how they cope with sight- reading? G5 level sight-reading is quite hard.

Also, out of interest - how can you learn a proper piece by ear without music?

Are you listening to your teacher play first? then you just copy their style.
DS's teacher hardly ever plays pieces and even bits of them - she always encourages DS to interpret written music. Isn't that the whole point?

[ZZZenAgain]

suzuki use recordings. The dc have to listen to them and accompany them at home so by hearing it every day they also learn it off by heart- I observed a suzuki violin lesson once but I didn't like it. Not that particular lesson/teacher and the method as far as I could judge it.

[maggiethecat]

Pushed, I've sent you PM.

I know what you mean about robotic style but this may be just in the early years as I have heard some older players who are not robotic. How much personal expression is allowed - I'm not sure.

There are some well known musicians who started off with Suzuki eg Benedetti. Would be interesting to know at what age/stage they left the method. But then it may not be that they left the 'method' as much as they left the teacher. And change of teachers happens on other methods of teaching.

A music teacher who knows enough about how Suzuki is taught might be able to enlighten us about why the method might be considered to hold students back after they have reached a certain stage of ability.

[pianomama]

Doesn't sound like my cup of tea

[CURIOUSMIND]

'improving your DCs sight reading skills or interpretive skills is not top of their list of priorities.'?!Then I am worried.I think from the very begining, they need to learn to sightread ,feel the music, AND listen by ear as well.
Many kids still wizzed through grade1,2,3,even 4 with poor sightreading ,but by grade 5,6, with 20 notes in one bar, how are you going to copy the teacher.It's getting very likely impossible.That's why there are so many Grade 3 achievers, but numbers significantly droped from Grade 5.
Parents effort could also make a huge difference.But how many parents sit in the tradition private 1-1 lesson and practice with them at home everyday?

[jasminerice]

Interesting thread.

[surroundedbyblondes]

I learned Suzuki violin as a child. I hated it. I mean really hated it. Musical bootcamp, full of pushy/competitive parents and their children playing like little robots. No understanding of music, expression or anything like that. I also felt that later on when I joined an youth orchestra that I was seriously disadvantged in terms of music reading etc.

It certainly didn't encourage me to continue playing the violin as an adult and actually made me feel very uncomfortable and self-conscious about playing it.

[StrongestMummyInTheWorld]

The Suzuki Book One and Two piano pieces are lovely. From the start you are playing proper tuneful pieces, and then onto some really nice stuff quickly.

My daughter learns Suzuki violin. We started with a non-Suzuki teacher using Suzuki books, and loved the method so much that when she retired we looked for a properly trained Suzuki teacher. We spoke to four. There was one who may well have taught surroundedbyblondes and her students looked like they were counting the days until they were allowed to quit. The other three were all lovely, the kids adored them, and we waited months and months for a place. At our first lesson, the teacher handed me two music reading workbooks ;-)

Best thing if you are interested in the method is to visit the teachers that are within reach of you and find out from them and from other Suzuki parents what their approach is. And there are loads of books and resources about Suzuki method, most teachers will require you to read "Nurtured by love" by Shinichi Suzuki before you start lessons.

[PushedToTheEdge]

"I think from the very begining, they need to learn to sightread ,feel the music, AND listen by ear as well.

Sorry but I disagree. The thinking is that a child starting out will be slowed down if they had to learn to sight read music. It is suggested that it is better to get the child playing and to develop the ability to play from memory. I agree with this

What I do disagree with is that this thinking is carried over to when a child reaches intermediate level

Once a child is about Grade 4 they need to be proficient at sight reading. Otherwise they won't be able to get the most from non-Suzuki workshops and the like.

Then there is the question of developing your own style. Yes as a 5 year old you need to be told to play this in a certain way but where Suzuki falls down is that the Method sticks to this when the child is old enough and proficient enough to explore and experiment.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

PushedtotheEdge - hello from the Mandarin-in-school thread. I like your posts. But I'm not stalking you, honest.

As I said earlier, we use the Suzuki book (they learn this by imitation) as well as the "traditional" books. With the slightly more complicated pieces DS1 finds that it's easier if he has seen the pieces written down first, while DS2 just blitzes on. DS1 is a good sight-reader, while DS2 just wings it all and is a slightly shakier sight-reader. I think some children just like it one way or the other, but whatever their preference is, surely it's the job of the teacher to provide the balance.

StrongestMummy - yes the Suzuki pieces are nice, aren't they? The kids hum them all the time.

[PushedToTheEdge]

After 5 years of 'Twinkles' every time I hear it I have to stop myself from poking sharp pencils into both my ears :o

[PushedToTheEdge]

Uptoapoint - I am occassionally in the Geeky Stuff forum, being a bit of a geek myself. If I see you there then I'll definitely know that I am being stalked :o

[CURIOUSMIND]

I encouraged my Ds1 to sight read from the very beginning, from as easy as,CCDDCCD-,this might be part of the reason he is able to achieve 6 grades in 2 years.I didn't see he was ever slowed down.