was full time, now part time, but it's not working

[NanBullen]

Just need a bit of advice really.

have worked full time for a high street bank in a customer service (i.e sales!) role for 8 years now. had ds in 2007 and went back ptime when he was one.

however, its just not working. i can't meet my sales targets only working 3 days a week. yes, my targets are reduced because of my hours but if i have one bad day then it really ruins my whole week, i can't catch up.

i had a chat with my manager last week who suggested i look for something else . i don't want to! I feel really annoyed actually, it's hard for everyone at the mo because obviously we aren't getting the footfall into the branch we were getting before the credit crunch. I feel like they just want rid of me. my manager admitted that she didn't think i'd come back to work at all.

however, fulltimers can stay after hours to try and drum up business on the phone, i can't do that. i have already changed the days i work and agreed to work a few saturdays as they are busier so i really am trying but i'm still not meeting my targets.

I'm on an action plan at the mo which i know i won't meet because the business isn't there. then it'll get more official. can they sack me? I feel that they should make me redundant as there isn't enough work for me.

i've just joined a union so hopefully thy'll help me if they try and sack me.

just wondered if anyone else had gone through anything similar?

[NanBullen]

forgot to say, i met my targets fine when i was fulltime!

[flowerybeanbag]

What you are saying is a little bit contradictory really. You say you do have pro rata targets but are not meeting them. Then you say there is not enough work for you so you feel you should be made redundant. Not enough work means you are sitting around with nothing to do, which I assume is not the case? You say yourself that your full time colleagues are working longer hours to meet their own targets so it's not that you are not busy, it's just that (presumably because or partly because of the economic climate) working as you used to do just isn't achieving what it used to, meeting targets is now harder than it used to be.

Obviously I don't know about your job at all so I might be wrong but that's the way it sounds from what you say.

You feel that because of the economic climate they need fewer sales staff and should therefore be making some people redundant. That may be the case but if they do that it should be a proper redundancy process involving all sales staff and proper selection criteria, rather than just making you redundant. That wouldn't be fair, if there are lots of people doing the same job redundancies should be selected from all of them.

Do you want to get made redundant? Although them making you redundant without a proper selection process involving everyone wouldn't be fair, if you ask for voluntary redundancy and they accept, that would be fine, so if that's what you want that could be an option.

Potentially they could dismiss you for poor performance, yes, although it would take quite a while to do so, you'd have to be given every chance to improve, all the support you need and they couldn't do it straightaway. They probably have to give you more than one formal warning with a period to improve between them before it got that far.

For that reason, if they do want to get rid of you, they may jump at voluntary redundancy.

If you don't want that, then your best bet is to explain why the targets are not realistic. I assume they are properly pro rated to reflect your reduced hours, so you couldn't base it on that, you'd have to base it on the changing economic climate and the difference between how much work is needed to generate the same level of sales and what was required before. You could highlight that full time colleagues are having to choose to stay late to meet their own targets, which you are not able to do.

[NanBullen]

Yes a lot of the time we do sit around with nothing to do as there are no customers and we have exhausted any contact lists we have (to call people from)

I would love to be made redundant so maybe i should just ask!

[NanBullen]

sorry forgot to say, yes targets are pro rata. we all have to get 1000 points a day, so i have to get 3000 a week, everyone else, 5000 a week.

i just get the impression from management that they were suprised i came back anyway and just want rid of me. i won't go without a fight though, have recently joined the union!

[flowerybeanbag]

Well if you would love to be made redundant you could certainly ask if voluntary redundancy is an option.

If you decide against that, or they say no, then your union will support you if they begin any kind of disciplinary action against you for not meeting your targets. Unrealistic targets will obviously be key to your own argument, the fact that full time colleagues are (presumably) managing to meet their targets will be key to their argument I would imagine.

[RibenaBerry]

Nan,

If your targets have been pro rated then, to be honest, I think you may struggle to show that you have been treated unfairly if your colleagues are managing to meet their full time targets.

The problem is that there is no direct protection against discrimination for having children - and it is your child that means that you can't put in the overtime like everyone else to try and meet targets. It may be possible to run an argument that it is sex discrimination (because more women than men need to leave work promptly because of childcare committments), but that type of argument is very much based on your particular workplace. If you happen to have lots of women amongst the full timers who also put in the extra hours, the argument becomes much more difficult to run.

In terms of redundancy, do also realise that that doesn't necessarily result in a pay off. All you are entitled to by law is your notice period (which you can be made to work), statutory redundancy (see here and any accrued but untaken holiday paid out. Your bank may have its own enhanced scheme, in which case you would need to look at the rules for that and see if you qualified. However, bear in mind that your legal starting point is pretty low. Also bear in mind that you may have to repay company enhanced maternity pay if you leave within a given period - again, look at the rules of your scheme and see whether this is something you would also need to negotiate.

[NanBullen]

thankyou both for your replies. Most colleagues aren't meeting their targets either, they're just not doing as badly as i am!

I'll see how it goes. if they want to make me redundant, great. if they want to sack me, i'll fight them every step of the way!

[ilovemydogandmrobama]

Would it make a difference if you could work late afternoons/early evening perhaps once a week to see whether or not it is easier to make targets? Go in later in the day and stay later?

And a bit of union etiquette. As you are a member, negotiation would be collective rather than individual. If there are going to be redundancies, then management would need to agree criteria with the union. Usually volunteers are given first preference with an enhanced package, with a cut off period.

Doesn't sound though as if your manager is really being helpful. One would think she would do everything possible to help the team make targets....

[NanBullen]

Exactly!

Thanks for your reply. Can't stay late unfortunately. not sure if i'm being realistic or just p***d off because i'm finding the job harder now that i'm ptime.

Everyone is finding the job harder at the mo. I think I would love to get a package and forget about it but it doesn't sound like that's going to happen! oh well.

[southernsoftie]

Also some unions won't take cases on before you have been a member for a minimum qualifying time (usually around 13 weeks but you should check for your particular union) so if anything happens within that timescale the union may not be able to help.

Agree with Flowery's first post re the arguments you could make as to why targets are not realistic - and maybe union could help to get them lowered for everyone (full and part time) until the markete picks up again.