CPE as a mature student, a whole lot of questions

[mysteryfairy]

Sorry this is really long I'm wrestling with how to work this out and need advance on lots of little bits of it.

I'm 37 (just) and have worked for the same company for the last 12 years - my whole post university working life. I work for a large organisation in a middle management role and along with many others I've been informally warned that I'm at risk of redundancy. Realistically I'm not one of the most likely candidates, however, as soon as I was warned, I thought it might be a complete nightmare or could be taken as a life changing opportunity.

I have always regretted not studying law/pursuing a career in law. The redundancy package I would be in line for would support me at least for the CPE year and probably the LPC year as well. DH is the main bread winner anyway, he has his own business and against the odds it really seems to be thriving.

Anyway I have a number of questions:

Am I too old to do this and have a realistic hope of a new career in law?

Will I be able to get a training contract in 2.5 years time in the North? I live within commuting distance of Leeds, Manchester and Sheffield as well as some smaller towns. Relocating is not an option as I have 3 DCs, two at senior school.

What could my salary aspirations be in family law in the North? (Not critical, but just wondering how it would compare to my current position)

Worst of all the closing date for applications is this Monday. My company gives really bland references from a central address. I believe they along the lines of x has worked here for x years in x role. There are quite strict rules on giving personal references - you can give one but must not refer to anything work related. Therefore my boss is refusing to give me a reference as he says there is nothing he can say. The guidance says:
Mature Students: If you were awarded your degree before 2004 and feel that a tutor's assessment would on its own no longer be appropriate, or if you are applying as a mature student under Regulation 10(1)(iii) of The Law Society's Training Regulations 1990 (as amended), you may as an alternative or in addition to the tutor's assessment provide an assessment of your suitability for the course from, for example, your employer (not being a relation). However, you should try to obtain a reference from a person with first hand knowledge of your academic ability.

Its really frustrating as there are lots of things I do in my current role which are good evidence of my capability to do the CPE. I graduated in 1994 and completed a PGCE the following year. I was 2 months pregnant as I finished my PGCE aged 23, had my first two children a year apart and then got a graduate position when DC2 was 6 months old and have since progressed at one company, originally against the odds as a young mum. I think because of the time that has elapsed it would be impossible for me to get an academic reference and I just do not have anyone else to ask. Any advice on what I could do bearing in mind I need to get the form in the post this week? BTW my academic record as evidenced by exam results is reasonably good - straight As in GCSEs and A levels, 2.1 in my degree from a red brick university.

How competitive will the CPE entry be - what if I miss the date for the first round due to the referee issue? Could I still get a place for September?

Would there be anyone else my age or similar on a CPE?

Sorry to ask so many questions - I would research elsewhere if the timescale wasn't so horrendously tight.

[PuzzleRocks]

Bumping for you.

[Squiffy]

Yes there will be people your age on the course - it is a really popular 'career-change' option. In fact so many people do it now that you have probably ost a little bit of the 'positive advantage' that you used to get (mature students typically being very popular with both law colleges and firms as they are such an easy way to demonstrate diversity in practice)

My friend is 43 and about to finally finish her articles (is that what you call them still?) and become fully qualified this May

Another friend decided to be a barrister after her first child was born. she would have been around 35 at the time - she did CPE with a baby and she is now a workign barrister.

And my husband was redundant around 6 years ago and he got offered about 5 places on CPE courses without current references (but then he did an MBA instead). Do you have written annual appraisals or similar? If so you can send them in with a covering letter saying your firm doesn't give references. Saying that, I think your boss is being a bit of a pig - if you DO get made redundant you will have a meeting with HR and they are highly likely to give you a supportive statement in these circumstances. Are more than 20 of you at risk? If so you should have an 'employee rep' consulting with HR about the redundancies - go and express your lack of reference concerns to him and ask him to raise this as part of consultation.

Likelihood of training contract and money? No idea I'm afraid. A lot will depend on what you currently do and type of person you are. My friend was very senior and her employers gave her a standard 'graduate' salary and then fast tracked her within 6 months so that she was back in a managerial role on almost her old salary, so some companies can be very flexible (in her case she went back into the law department within her old industry and they sponsored her - she didn't go to a law firm)

DONT MISS THE DEADLINE. Put the applications in and then call the colleges next week to ask them about lack of reference - they are usually approachable and might just call you for interview instead. And you can always turn down offers if you change your mind after applying.

Good luck.

[scubagroover]

Hi

I took 3 years out after uni to do the CPE/PgDL as its now called so not exactly in the same category. I work for a City firm in London so may not be able to answer your specific questions in relation to the salary/ career in family law in the north etc etc. Have a look at www.rollonfriday.com which has a lot of really useful info in terms of training contracts, salaries etc etc.

Anyway, I have always maintained that doing the CPE is a really useful qualification whether or not you go on to pursue a career in law. I found it interesting and in talking to a few people who worked in HR said that many firms value it in terms of giving people useful and transferable knowledge so even if you didn't manage to get a job in law then I don't think that it would necessarily be a waste of time. Saying that things in London in law (to be fair I am talking about corporate law rather than family etc) are grim at the moment and there are a lot of redundancies being made. However I would have thought that by the time you finish your LPC things are very likely to have changed.

My firm actually seems quite keen on older candidates and I know that in my intake there were at least two people over 30 who were taken on so i don't necessarily think that your age will work against you.

Not really sure what to suggest in terms of the reference but I would call the law school you are applying to ask for their advice. In my experience they are generally really helpful.

[mysteryfairy]

Thanks for the responses - I feel really encouraged. I subsequently established that I could get work to verify my first degree which they luckily still have a record of from when they employed me and in that case they don't need to give any further information. I do have annual appraisals. Generally staff can use them in external applications, but unfortunately my objectives relate to commercially sensitive information so most of it would have to be blocked out and I don't think that would have looked great!

I had to attend a parent's evening after work. I have then spent the last two hours completing the form which is very straightforward apart from the personal statement. You are limited to 1500 characters though (its an online form) so I've managed to come up with something I'm reasonably happy with.

I don't want to be too specific about my current career but I do believe I have some skills that will be very transferable. Law isn't in the short term going to make me any richer though I don't think. (Richer than if I'm unemployed of course!)

With regard to the redundancy situation there has just been a round of redundancies which I survived. It has been informally, but very convincingly, advised to us that there will be another more brutal round - they are consulting with the union (which I am in) at the moment so no one has yet been informed that they are at risk. Far in excess of 20 people will be affected.

[mysteryfairy]

Hi - my application went in. I basically had to apply for law schools within an easy commute - leeds and sheffield so I don't think the most desirable.

I've mentally left work now - its going to be quite a shock not getting made redundant...