flexible working hours for fathers

[micci25]

dp is due back to work on monday. recently we have been having a lot of problems in our relationship that has seen us split up temporarily and has had dp at the doctors suffering depression and stress.

we have both agreed that the problems we have are emphasised by his shift work. due to his hours of work (8.5 hours a day 5 days a week any time between 8am and 10pm) due to this it is difficult for me to find a job, as if we both working and having to pay top ups on tow lots of childcare we would be worse off than we are now.

the only option i have to get a job would be to fit it in around dps shifts, which with the shifts he is working atm would be impossible.

dp wants to apply again for set shifts monday to friday between 8am and 4:30pm. this would mean that i have a better chance of finding a job and he would be able to take more responsibilty for the childcare and housework.

he has applied for flexible working hours and been turned down once before. does he have any legal rights to flexible hours like mothers do?

we really need him to get approved this time as our relationship is suffering due to arguments about finances, or lack of, and the fact that i feel trapped in the house all day and feel like i have sole responsiblity of the dc's and housework. if i dont get a job and adult conversation soon i am going to go insane!

[HappyMummyOfOne]

As long as the last application was not in the last 12 months and your children are under the age of 6 he can apply again.

However, with shift patterns it can be more difficult to get new hours agreed. You only have the right to ask for flexible working not the right to get it automatically granted.

He'll need to provide details of how the new hours would benefit the company and meet the business needs.

If they dont agree, he can always look for a new job with no shift pattern.

[micci25]

he has applied for at least three new jobs while he has been off all with better hours.

he works in a massive call center so it wouldnt effect them one way or the other. could we say that iit would benefit the company as he would be happier and more content in his job and therefore a better more efficent worker?

[findtheriver]

The right to apply for flexible working is for parents - it doesn't discriminate between mothers and fathers. So from that point of view, he has every right to request it. He will need to plan carefully how he will present his case though. The fact that it's to try to make it easier for you to get a job because you won't have to pay for childcare will not be considered as a good reason, so he shouldnt mention that. Ultimately it is not the employers problem whether you have to pay for childcare or not.

[micci25]

so what would be the best way to present it be? tbh both of us feel like our relationship may depend upon it as i dont think either of us could take much more arguing!!!

its not just that i cant get a job due to it its that i am lumbered with all the childcare too and housework. he is rarely on early shifts so never has time to put them to bed or bath them and because he says he needs time to unwind before going to bed he stays up alte and is not out of bed early enough to get them up or spend much time with them. also the weekend work means that he misses out on going to the park/swimming/fairs etc with them.

[branflake81]

I used work in a call centre and worked varying shifts. I asked them if I could move to working 8-5 as at the time I couldn't drive and relied on public transport. They flatly said no. So I had to get a taxi there every day until I found a new job which meant I was essentially working the first two hours for free.

I think large companies can be quite heartless.

[findtheriver]

micci - I can't answer specifically how your DP should present his case, as I don't know the intricacies of his employment. I'm just making the point that the personal stresses on you as a family, the problems and costs of childcare etc will not be considered as a good reason. A flexible working request needs to demonstrate that the employee can continue to maintain the quality of their work, and get the job done, within the proposed working hours. And it must not impact negatively on other employees. (eg if his proposed hours made more work for others, or if it made it very difficult to recruit a suitable employee to fill the gaps he leaves.)
It sounds like something has to 'give' in your lifestyle, because it's causing a lot of arguments and affecting your relationship. I don't know what the answer is, maybe best for your partner to continue looking for other work ; maybe you should seek employment as the primary earner and he could be at home for a while? Not for me to say as I don't know you. Hope you can work things through.

[kd73]

Micci, I have worked in a "call centre" environment for many years and the 8-4shift is always the most favoured by the staff.

Would it be possible that your DP could work from 12 noon until 8pm fixed as a compromise? This may be looked upon more favourably and may give you the opportunity to work early mornings until lunchtime, without paying for childcare.

[micci25]

thats an idea. i had never thought about him doing permanent lates so that i can work mornings! though id be at college on thurs eve 6-9 do you think theyd let him do one early and the rest lates?

there are loads of cleaning jobs round here and they are mornings and quite well paid too!

[RibenaBerry]

I agree with Findtheriver, but wanted to add a copule of things. If your DP did not put in his last flexible working request as a formal one under the flexible working procedure, it doesn't count as using up his one request a year and he can do a new request. If he did, he has the right to appeal.

Bear in mind, as Findtheriver has said, that you need to put forward the business case for the new arrangement and explain it that way. Although the purpose of the right is to allow parents to care for children, provided that precondition is fulfilled they will not get into balancing how much an individual family needs the flexibility.

As others have said, I think you need to think carefully about how your DP phrases his request. There is nothing to stop him putting forward various options for shifts that would help. Being on the 8-4:30 shift does sound like the 'plum' shift, so I suspect it may be difficult to get agreement to be permanently on that one. After all, it means that other people have to do more of the antisocial shifts. If that's the one he wants to go for, he should probably have a think about who might prefer to be on that shift. If he could find someone else who wanted to be on permanent lates he would stand a better chance of getting it agreed.

[KatyMac]

I think I'd go for him doing all lates - & get a babysitter for that one evening

Then if you could get something starting quite early you could be really sorted

Could you work for his company and do the swop in the car park?

[squiffy]

The way the company will be thinking is that if they give it to your husband then they will have to give it every othe rparent that requests it which could then end up beign very unfair on those without kids.

The only way around it that might work is for your DH to (1) acknowledge in his request how difficult it might be for copmpany given that they need to be fair to all staff yet also have to consider his request carefully by law (just in case they don't appreciate this or think that you don't) and (2) offer to work a set of hours that are much less social than average, to put himself effectively in an unfair position. That way they know he is not taking the p, that they can grant it without upsetting other staff, that the benefits to him will be enormous for which he will be extremely grateful, and that it will therefore be advantageous for them to grant it.

I think he should offer a couple of options such as noon-8 PLUS x number of bank holidays/weekends (if they are difficult to fill) or 2-10 (which I guess is the most unpopular one). Then at least you will have a fixed pattern to work with (you will then have to organise childcare to fit)

I would also politely point out (not sure how to bring this in) that changing shift work patterns (soem of them v unsociable) occur in the Police service and they have sorted out flexi working. Might make them think twice before throwing out the usual 'impossible to organise' excuse....

Another option (which is not part of the legislation) is to ask to work these set hours unofficially before putting in an offical request. That way they have the time to see if it works before taking their formal position. That way they can avoid being potentially at risk of a tribunal case if they say NO, and also avoid agreeign to somethign which becomes impossible to work with (in terms of everyone else's shifts) if they say YES. It 'shows willing' and might tip the balance in your DH's favour (especially if he has been taking time off recently)

[micci25]

he has talked to his team leader and said taht she seemed 'optomistic'. the shift patterns he would have would be either 5 days out of 7 doing 8am till 4:30pm or 1:30pm untill 10pm but no weekends!

his call center doesnt treat bank holidays any differntly to any other day! they are renouned in thsi town for being poor employers re wages and being fair to employees re shift patterns, promotions, payrises. they have a massive turn over of staff!

i think he is going to ask for either/or (early/lates)and see what they offer him. and keep looking for other jobs in the meantime. for me it would be better if he could do the later shift as there are loads well paid cleaning jobs around here and it would mean that i could work and still do my college course on an evening. plus dd1 wouldnt have to miss out on dancing, i dont think that he would take her.