Grievance - What , if any, are the repercussions for the person the grievance is taken out ?

[Mojomummy]

I've been off sick from work since Aug 07. Finally Occupational Health have contacted me & after talking to them, they suggest the way forward for me is to take a grievance out on the 2 managers (potentially a 3rd) that caused me distress.

I am just wondering the effect this will have on them/their career.

I am signed off until Feb & although I can return at anytime (subject to drs ok) it appears I might be better off remaining off whilst the grievance procedure goes ahead.

Any grievance info/outcomes would be good.

Thanks.

[WideWebWitch]

I manage people. My view would be that the people concerned would be made to understand the consequences of their behavour, their personal responsibility and they would be expected to attend training to change how they behaved.
If you've been affected you won't be the only one quite possibly, so the people who manage the people who've caused your issue do need to know. If you don't take out a grievance there's very little they can do to manage or change the behaviour of these people.
If it's affected you your employer hasa duty to fix it. Go for it.

[flowerybeanbag]

It very much depends on what the grievance is about. It could be what WWW said, a bit of a lecture plus some kind of training or mentoring, coaching or performance management to modify their behaviour.

Or it could be a disciplinary situation, and they could end up with a warning of some description on their record as well, with a timescale after which it will be removed - 6 months is common.

Very much depends on what their actions have been.

In terms of how it will affect their career. Internally if their behaviour is not 'known' until this grievance is put forward, obviously it may colour the opinion of them among those that 'matter'. Longer term I would say if they change or continue to deliver results, that may well subside.

Based on my experience of these situations, I would expect the directors or whoever, to have a good knowledge of these people already and how they work. It may be that this grievance will give them an excuse to deal with them harshly. Or it may be that their impression of these people is fab, they deliver results, good at their job etc, and this type of behaviour is not regarded as a serious problem in which case long term impact will probably be low. I would be surprised if anyone important will be shocked and therefore impressions of them internally probably won't change hugely.

Externally, if there is a disciplinary ongoing or a warning on their record, it is something that can be asked by a future employer in a reference, and must be disclosed. So if that happens it is more likely to have an impact.

I hope that helps answer your question?

In terms of yourself, I am sure you understand that bringing a grievance is a stressful process. I would be inclined to put it in as soon as possible, then see how progress is and how you are feeling about it come February, and if you feel then that you'd rather stay out of the way and are finding it stressful, get the doctor to sign you off again. I would anticipate that that will be the case. I would not expect you back while this process is ongoing if I were involved.

Good luck.

[Mojomummy]

Hi & thanks ladies - FBB, do you remember me posting last Jul/Aug ?

The grievance will be taken out because since I joined the department & announced pregnancy I've just been ignored.

The guy that moved me to his department did so to take me with him when he moved to his new role. When I told him I was pregnant, that was the end of that & the new manager (& new to the business - big blue chip with lots of 'business's) more or less ignored me. I wasn't given a proper role, just helped out here & there (a bit like an odd job man). When on maternity & 7mths later, still no role. No payrise - because I don't contribute in the same way as the others - they are all reviewers & I'm not - so being compared to more senior peers , mediocre review.

Then a partime role came up, because a part- timer had taken redundancy. This was great, new task manager, great review. She left & of course no payrise (still reporting to the previous manager). New female task manager, again new to business & didn't have a clue. SPent a lot of her time making me feel stupid to make herself better (my opionion) the official line is she was intimidating, told lies & in the end I had to tell her I couldn't talk to her because I found her so unhelpful. Then left for maternity. Took a year off - no contact from anyone, apart from at the 6mth mark, where I was told my job had been absorbed by the business (as I was told when I went on my maternity leave) - no offer of redundancy.
Then at the year off mark, several conversations trying to work out where I could go on my return - me applying for a leave of absence (declined) & then requesting parental leave (approved but postponed for 6 mths) Also asked why I just don't resign & start afresh somewhere else. Oh & when I did go back (for 4 days) found out than he hadn't completed the forms for me to get paid - so was paid 6 weeks late.

Ooh out of breath now - just had to get it off my chest because I'm slightly furious that I've not taken a stand against this before, that they have the cheek to think they can just walk all over me (& other people).

[flowerybeanbag]

OOh Hi Mojo, do you know what, I was in such a hurry I didn't even look at the name of the OP! I remember all your palaver about parental leave etc

Go for it with the grievance. At the very least even if not a lot happens to them, it will get this behaviour on the record, which could be handy if someone else complains about the same thing, sometimes accumulated complaints about similar things can be significant, particularly when, as for you, the grievance isn't about one clear-cut, dramatic event, it's more general behaviour iyswim?

Were you really asked 'why don't you resign'? That's a bit of a dodgy thing to say to someone, they could potentially be in lots of trouble for saying that.

Hope you achieve something with the grievance anyway, and I do think stay off while you are doing it, definitely, it can be stressful anyway without having to try and work with people at the same time.

Best of luck

[Mojomummy]

Hi FLowery

Yes My manager said that to me on the phone, word for word. He said it in response to me discussing my potential application for a leave of absence & said that no-one would know me in a years time (so what & what difference does it make anyway?)

Agree that if I make a stand, then XXX might be a little more on the ball with these situations, which I understand aren't that uncommon.

I'm currently signed off until 12 Feb. so back to my drs in the next week. I'm having counselling which I think is helping to give me the strength to go through this. And, although I realise it will be stressful, I can't see how it can be more stressful than carrying it around for the last 5 years. Could it ?

If you, WWW or anyone else has more advice, send it over.

Thanks

[LOVEMYMUM]

I can understand that you are curious about the effect your grievance will have on the people concerned, but don't lose sight of the effect it has had on you. You've been off sick since Aug 07!

I am wondering if you may have a case for constructive dismissal. It seems to me that you have been not been treated well and I'm just wondering if your employer is trying to force you out.

[Mojomummy]

LMM, I've spent the last 6mths on anti-depressants, which I think has made the time go past in a fog. Now on a reduced dose & weekly counselling I feel that I can get over this.

How does constructive dismissal work & wouldn't I have to resign for this ? I've been there 11years in May btw.

[flowerybeanbag]

Mojo have a read here if you want to know more about constructive dismissal. It's extremely difficult to prove unless there's one major easily provable breach of contract, and as you will see from the link, in your circumstances you would be expected to make every attempt to resolve the problem first, with a grievance, which is what you are doing. You would also need to take legal advice before considering that.

[LOVEMYMUM]

I can't advise on legal matters (Flowerybeanbag is fantastic on this!).

I would write down EVERYTHING that has happened (including antidepressants) so that you can produce an account of the events. (Date and what happened).

The thing is, if you make it known about the anti-d, you don't want the employer to say, "We had no choice, she couldn't cope". It is such a complicated matter for you to sort out. Do you have a union or have you approached the Citizen's Advice Bureau?

[Mojomummy]

I was put on ad's BECAUSE of work & then signed off - in fact my dr wanted to sign me off earlier, but I said no. On the other hand I couldn't cope with the task manager's attitude.

Thanks for the link - had a quick read up & won't be resigning. I'm determind to resolve all this & then move forward.

[looneytune]

My mate MOJO {{{hugs}}} I'm SOOOOO sorry that I've only just caught up with this.

First of all, I'm sooooo pleased that you are doing something about this, I know you well enough to know you'd never be able to get past this without trying. These people have treated you like *&$% and I know the AD's have not been a good experience for you and I'm just pleased it's settled down a bit and the counselling is helping

I remember going on and on about constructive dismissal last year but then I remember how difficult FBB said it would be. I definitely think the grievance route is the way to go and you are doing the right thing - these people will continue to treat people like crap until someone makes a stand. And.....I know you can do it!!!

Let's get together for coffee - I'll bring naughty things with me!!! I'll send you an email!

LT xxxxxxxx