part time work and bank holidays

[Nooster]

I hope someone knows about this as I can't find anything concrete.

A colleague works 4 days, mon - thurs and we all used to get 21 days plus bank holidays before october, making her allowance 16.8 days in my book plus bank holidays

I work 4 days too and I insist on taking these 16.8 days plus bank hols and have never had any probs, my day off is weds.

She has been told (for many years) that her allowance is 15.2 days as she must include bank holidays as these are pro rata'd too. so (21+8/5*4)Surely after taking the 8 bank holiday days she is only left with 15.2 days!!!!! Now I understand this can be done but not if they were never included in the 21 days for the full timers anyway?

............until the new 24 days came in.

We got an email saying the new increase to 24 days does not affect anyone as these can be included in the holiday entitlement. so what happens now?

Nicki

[foxinsocks]

I'm not sure what you are asking.

Are you saying that bank holidays were never pro rata'd - so effectively, beforehand you got 16.8 days PLUS 8 full bank holiday days?

We have done the same thing with the 24 days btw and I hadn't thought about pro rata ing the bank holidays for the part timers. Hmm. Must think about that.

As you effectively have 29 days leave under the new rules (21 plus 8), then they could pro rata them.

What does it say in your contract about bank holidays?

[foxinsocks]

I should have added I guess (after 'then they could pro rata them'). Was just thinking out aloud!

As the 24 days doesn't include bank holidays (and the 28 days when that comes around in April 09), then your leave exceeds 24 days as it is 21 plus the 8 bank holidays so is, in effect, 29 days so your leave situation should not change at all.

It may be that they wrote her contract saying she had to pro rata her entire leave (incl bank holidays) and yours just didn't work that way!

[ellehcim]

Bank holidays can be and usually are pro rated for part timers. It can cause issues for thse who usually work on a monday because they are effectively taking off the same days as everyone else but not getting paid for all of them. What people forget is that there is no automatic entitlement to bank holidays, they can just form part of the statutory holiday entitlement if the employer choses.

The contract will detail these things.

[foxinsocks]

this is useful. I use business link a fair bit for info on this type of thing!

[flowerybeanbag]

Bank holidays should be pro rata'd the same as other holidays, so someone working 4 days where the full time holiday entitlement is 21 plus 8 bank holidays, (total 29 days) should get 16.8 (which I would round up to 17) plus 5 bank holidays total 21.8 (or 22) days.

Does that make sense? Basically as part timers you can't be disadvantaged compared to full timers so you should get pro rata exactly the same annual leave and bank holiday entitlements.

The new regulations don't affect you as bank holidays can be included in the 24 days so obviously your current entitlement is more than that already.

[ChasingSquirrels]

i am pretty sure that the legal position is that the bank holidays should be pro-rata's.
If yours works out at better than this then you wouldn't question it, but if it works out worse (ie you never work Mondays so lost most of them) then you could challange it and get them pro-rata'd

[flowerybeanbag]

x-post with everybody!

[MrsMuddle]

Can I hijack and ask flowerybeanbag a quick question? I work mon, tue and wed, so get 3/5 of 4 weeks holiday and 3/5 of 12 bank holidays. But this year, because C and NY are on Tue and Wed, and most other bank hols are on a Monday, it means that I'm having to use more than a week of my annual leave to cover bank holidays, leaving me less than 3 weeks to take when I choose.

I accept that I should get pro rata because I am part time, but it puts me in a less favourable position than my full-time colleagues who can choose when to take all their annual leave. Apart from that, I enjoy the job. Should I put up and shut up or is it worth raising with HR?

[ellehcim]

There has been a lot of case law on it but it is correct that they are pro rating the holidays. I accept its annoying that you have to use your holiday to cover the bank holidays. I'm in the same situation since I work 4 days a week and believe me that as an employment lawyer I would challenge it if it was worth it.

The only way you could challenge it was if you were getting less than your statutory entitlement of 24 days holiday (F/T)in total.

There are only 8 bank holidays though so if you're getting 12 you're doing well!

[ellehcim]

sorry Flowery didn't mean to steal your thunder there

[flowerybeanbag]

that's ok ellehcim was upstairs bathing DS anyway

And yes put up and shut up Mrs Muddle in the nicest possible way. Unless is it a possiblity to make up some of the extra days you would be getting by working extra days instead iyswim? So rather than using annual leave for the extra bank hols which are on your normal working days, work a day you don't usually work instead. I appreciate that might not be possible for you but could be an option for some anyway.

[MrsMuddle]

Thanks flowery and ellehcim, that's what I thought but I'm glad you've confirmed it. It's my only niggle, and I realise I'm very lucky when I see some of the problems at work people have here.

[LIZS]

I got a prorata hours for Bank Holidays even though none fall within my 2 month contract. You do have to offset them against the hours you'd normally work on the Bank Holidays though, where applicable.

[Nooster]

Thanks everyone - I think my plan is to keep quiet about mine then, and tell my colleague the sad news!! We dont have contracts - although I know we can request them and get them by law.

I have always taken my 16.8 days and then all the bank hols as well. She hasnt. I am going on mat leave v shortly though so dont have to worry about anything until next august!

Nicki