New Holiday Entitlement - What happens if you don't work 52 weeks a year?

[nannynick]

Hi, does anyone know the new rules regarding Holiday Entitlement well?

Holiday Entitlement

Using the Holiday Entitlement Tool, I have worked out that I should get 23.8 days.

I actually get a lot more holiday than this, as I work Term Time only, but a lot is unpaid. Currently only 20 days are paid.

How should holiday entitlement be calculated for term time only workers? When trying to follow the instructions in the Holiday Entitlement FAQ, I get the same hourly calculation, as I would under the old system (200 hours, which for me is 4 weeks). So not sure if I am doing that right - surely my holiday entitlement should increase?

Anyone have any ideas?

[TwoToTango]

I think total holiday entitlement can include the amount of bank holidays. I used to work for an agency and got the stat minimum of 20 days hol but that included all bank hols - not sure if thats any help though

[flowerybeanbag]

Hi nannynick
Best way to do it might be by weeks. As I am sure you have read in the new rules, from October you will get 24 days a year if you work all year round 5 days a week.
So, assuming you work 5 days a week, divide 24 by 52, then multiply by however many weeks you work, assuming that holiday time (as in non-termtime) is all unpaid.

Make sense?

(If you don't work 5 days a week, divide 24 by 5 then multiply by however many days you do to get your annual entitlement. Then do the above calculation to work out what it should be for termtime only).

[saggarmakersbottomknocker]

How many hours a week do you work?

It's confusing isn't it - I work term-time too and currently get a little more than 4 weeks paid holiday.

[nannynick]

Currently it is as follows:
I work 50 hours a week
I work 36 weeks
I am paid for 36 weeks plus 4 weeks (20 days) holiday (so paid for total of 40 weeks)


flowerybeanbag - If I follow what you write, I get the following:

24/52 = 0.4615
Weeks Worked: 36
Days Hol: 16.615

So that is LESS days than I currently get!

[flowerybeanbag]

DTI FAQs about holiday entitlement
nannynick this link suggests working it out with hours and gives an example.

twototango you are right holiday entitlement can include bank holidays, that's one of the reasons statutory holiday is being increased, because most employers do give bank holidays in addition but some don't.

Whether bank holidays should be included for nannynick should be in his contract.

[flowerybeanbag]

nannynick it's 40 weeks you should use for the calculation, anything you are paid for, iyswim.
So 40 weeks is your total paid working time of which currently you get 20 days off as holiday.

[TwoToTango]

I currently work Weds to Fri so I don't benefit from most of the bank hols which are on a monday or the extra day on a tuesday which are given on most bank hols - someone mentioned to me I should get extra holiday to make up for this - is this right?

[TiredFedUpNanny]

Hi nick,

Well I started my current job on 3rd January and leave on 31st August, but will be taking my final holiday entitlement, bank holiday and a few days unpaid, before I go.

I just went into the calculator and it says that for that period I should have 13.2 days. I had 6 days at Easter because they chose to go away at the last minute, and then last friday I had off because they chose to go away again (although I have done lots of overtime for them with no time off in lieu, so it evens out there). So that is 7 days out of my 13.2; they thought I was entitled to another 2 weeks' leave (10 days) before I leave, when in actual fact I am only due another 6.2 and any bank holidays. Oh dear.

[nannynick]

Using the details from the DTI FAQ, I get the following:

50 hours per week, 36 working weeks = 1800 hours
Divide by 48 weeks = 37.5 hours per week
37.5 hours x 4.8 weeks = 180 hours

Based on my usual 10 hour day this is thus: 18 days.

Which is 2 days LESS than I get currently!

Regarding Bank Holidays - I get those off if they fall in my regular working week. For this coming school year, that means I get Friday 21 March (Good Friday) and Monday 5 May (May Bank Holiday) off.

All help much appreciated... is it right that I now get LESS holiday, than before?

[TiredFedUpNanny]

But yes, I used to work as a payroll clerk before uni, and you work out your entitlement pro rata. So you divide your total entitlement by 52 weeks and then multiply by 40 weeks to get your total entitlement.

So you are entitled to 23.8 over a 52 week period, but if you only work 40 weeks, you are entitled to 18.3 days.

[TiredFedUpNanny]

Nick, as nannies, I find it is normal that we get more than we are entitled to because parents decide to take holidays at the last minute and they don't keep track or we don't keep track. It's, in many ways, a less formal arrangement. Those are the mimimum requirements. My husband gets 8 weeks a year holiday, including 2 weeks at xmas, a week at easter and a 1 week shut down in august!

[TiredFedUpNanny]

You should still get more holiday than before, surely. It should still be worked out pro rata now and will be then. Now you are entitled to say 20 over 52 weeks and then you will be entitled to 24 over 52 weeks, so pro rata that should work out as more days off. But my husband said something about the new figure including BHs rather than BHs being an add-on.

[nannynick]

TFUN - all my working dates for the upcoming school year are set in stone during the summer holidays - thus I now have all the dates I am working, plus all dates for school holidays (3 schools involved!) from 3rd September 2007 to 1 September 2008. The days I work will not change due to parents taking holiday at last minute, as that won't happen - due to them also needing to plan the school year in advance.

My guess is that I current contract is far more favourable than minimum holiday entitlement, as under current contract, I get 20 days paid holiday.

[TiredFedUpNanny]

Right, I catch your drift now! Yes, your new entitlement, in that case, is going to be less. You are getting more than statutory now then, aren't you? If you only work 40 weeks but get 4 weeks of holiday...

[flowerybeanbag]

nannynick lol I just thought about that having gone away giving my answers, of course if you get 20 days for 40 weeks you are getting way more than statutory as it is so the new increase won't affect you.

twototango, yes you should get extra holiday to make up for bank holidays you miss.

Bank holidays for a 5 day week in England is 8 days a year.
So if you work 3 days a week you should get 3/5 of that which is 4.8, round up to 5.
So you should look at the beginning of each year in the calendar to see how many bank holidays naturally fall on your working days, as obviously Christmas, Boxing Day and New Years Day are different each year.
Then if the bank holidays which naturally fall on your working days equals less than 5, you should get extra days to make it up.

[TwoToTango]

thanks for that flowerybeanbag - how do you work out the 3/5 = 4.8 (sorry if I seem a bit thick but one of the mums at the school is in the same position as me but works 4 days - Tues - Fri so I would like to tell her how to work it out )

[nannynick]

TwoToTango - I think it is:

8 days / 5 = 1.6 days
multiply by days worked per week, so 1.6 days x 3 days
which equals 4.8 days.

So for a 4 day week it would be
8 days / 5 = 1.6 days
x 4 = 6.4 days

[TwoToTango]

Its OK flowerybeanbag I just managed to work it out!! 8 divide by 5 x 3. so hers would be 4/5 = 6.4 (round up to 6.5?) she will miss out on 4 but get to take 4 so will get no extra?

I will miss out on 6 bank hols so I should get an extra days hol - Is this right?

[TwoToTango]

Thanks nannynick - this holiday business is quite complicated. I work for the local government though so I would have thought they would have been on the ball about it!

[nannynick]

TwoToTango - there is some information over at ACAS about Part-Time employees rights with regard to bank holidays.
----
Q. Can a part-time worker who works Wednesday to Friday claim the right to paid bank holidays which fall on a Monday?
A. Only if full-time workers at the same workplace are given paid leave for bank holidays in addition to the statutory leave entitlements under the Working Time Regulations.
The Part-time Workers (Prevention of less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000 provide that part-time workers should not be treated less favourably than full-timers in regard to their contractual terms. As most bank and public holidays fall on a Monday, those staff who do not normally work that day could be disadvantaged. Best practice suggests that such workers should be given a pro-rata entitlement of days off in lieu according to the number of hours they work.
----
Source: ACAS Advice Leaflet, Holidays

[TwoToTango]

Thanks for all your help

[TwoToTango]

She should get 2.5 extra days - I'm really confusing myself now - think I will ring HR on Monday

[flowerybeanbag]

if in doubt ring HR
Twototango is always best to work out how many bank holidays you should have then look at a calendar each year and see how many you get, rather than seeing how many you miss, because although someone working a 5 day week will always get 8, if you are working less, the number you automatically get might vary year to year.
So if your friend is entitled to 6.4 bank holidays a year (they might round down to 6 or up to 6.5, that will be up to her HR dept), she needs to check the calendar and see how many bank holidays during the year will fall on her working days and then she will be entitled to additional days to make it up to 6/6.5.

Make sense? It's complicated isn't it?!

[TwoToTango]

Thanks flowerybeanbag - you have explained it really well. At least I will be able to speak to HR and sound fairly confident on the subject - I feel a bit awkward though - i've only been in the job 2 weeks