No contract, no payslips no final payment

[Agrestic]

Dp started working for a small, family run company last April. To cut along story short he was never issued a contract and never given any payslips despite asking repeatedly . His wages were paid into my bank account (unrelated reason) monthly.

There were numerous issues, all routing down to an incompetent manager.

On the 3rd of December he was offered another position elsewhere but it was an immediate start. He took the job and told old employer he wasn't returning.

He wrote to them on the 10th officially resigning and again asking for payslips & confirmation of what was left of his holiday allowance. Nothing back.

He was due to be paid on the 23rd but nothing has turned up.

We emailed on the 26th, nothing back.

What do we do next? Can they just not pay him due to him leaving them in the shit? I know they legally have to supply payslips.

The pressure they put him under was insane for the position he was employed in. He had access to some records and discovered an extremely high staff turn over which suggests this is an ongoing issue...

I'd be great full for any advice.

[Viviennemary]

The best thing to do would be to go to the Citizens Advice Bureau. If he wasn't given a contract then he won't have an official notice period. I don't think they can just not pay him for work done. Unless they are going to pay him the money and it's just got delayed over the Christmas holidays. Sounds as if he is well out of it.

[Viviennemary]

You could ask for this to be moved to money matters or chat because they get more people. And there will be folk with a lot more knowledge than me. Hope things work out.

[Agrestic]

That's what I thought re the notice period... We are half heartedly thinking it could just be the time of year but going on thier past behaviour I doubt it. They are open throughout the entire Christmas/NY period so haven't got that excuse either.

I'm thinking CAB too Viv. Thanks, I think I'll post in Chat as well for some traffic...

[Agrestic]

*grateful ! Not sure what happened there!

[ForTheLoveOfSocks]

Contacts don't have to be in writing, they can be implied or verbal too.

Notice periods are usually based upon how your paid, so if your paid weekly it's one week, monthly it's a month etc.

You need some more specialist employment advice than CAB really. If you google ACAS you'll get better and more specific advice to your situation

[JE1234]

He will be entitled to unpaid holiday regardless of a contract. Send a notice in advance of court action, that should get them moving.

[thekingfisher]

Essentially - whilst there was no written contract - he had entered into a contract with the employer in that he provided services in return for a sum of money which he agreed to.

In these circumstances where there are no written details he should have given 1 weeks notice to the employer as that is the statutory notice. As he didn't, the contract as it stands was broken and he would have been due no further monies

He should however have been paid for any accrued but not taken holiday up to the point he left and for work completed up to the point of leaving.

I would suggest putting a letter together detailing what monies are due and provide a date by which you would like these paid (say 5 working days)

It is vert poor form to just leave with no notice regardless of the firms treatment of him - he could have raised a formal grievance before the point of resignation as I assume he had looked around for a bit. That being said it is not on for them not to pay him. However document in writing first - send it recorded signed for - get proof of receipt - don't rely on email or texts

[Quodlibet]

As well as payslips I think he will need a P45. Presumably they have been deducting tax from his pay? You will want the P45 as evidence that this money has been paid to HMRC.

[Agrestic]

Thank you for the advice. I will get him to call ACAS, I'd forgotten about them. They were helpful with a few queries I had in the past.

kingfisher - I agree to a certain extent re him bailing however seeing as it seems he is the 4th person employed in his position to have left in this manner I don't think the fault morally lies in his court.

Re the pay though - I should have mentioned he was hourly paid and approx 2 weeks wages are owed (100 hours). If he broke the verbal contract and should have worked a weeks notice would the full two weeks be void? Or one week?

Can anyone help us work out how much holiday he would be entitled too? Or point me in the right direction.

Many thanks.

[Agrestic]

Well this is it Quodlibet. There's no evidence tax has been paid. He requested the P45 in the letter & email too.

[Agrestic]

*the amount he was paid did make it look as if the correct deductions had been made but there's been nothing to say that it had.

[Viviennemary]

I also think you need to check his National Insurance contributions have been made. It's all very well no payslips for cash in hand for a couple of hours work but when you're paying tax it's grim not to know what you've paid.

[JE1234]

He can contact HMRC quoting his NI number to see if PAYE was deducted. If not then the company are up to something very dodgy, presuming he isn't a freelancer. I would send a letter giving them a week to respond and send it recorded making it clear that you will take them to a tribunal to receive outstanding pay. Definitely get on to ACAS, CAB may be some help but they're a bit hit and miss.

[thekingfisher]

Agrestic - agreed on a moral basis but a tribunal will pay no attention to who else has been treated like this unless a group action is taking place.

In the circumstances no pay should be docked as he failed to give notice - in theory - the company may apply their own 'moral justice' by withholding pay...

Please be aware that to submit a claim at an employment tribunal is £160 for this type of claim - so you may wish to weigh up your options and don't necessarily throw around the threat of a tribunal as for most people this would be a last resort as the costs of even getting to a tribunal are a deterrent in the first place and the Co may bank on this...

As far as the holiday accrual went - when did he start, when did he actually stop working and what was the work pattern ( i.e. M-F office hours ) and weekly hours and what holiday did he take during this time?

I would just be relentless with your requests and don't give up

[JE1234]

You don't need to worry about the costs of tribunal as holiday pay is a statutory right, they cannot find in the company's favour on that. They will therefore lose the case and will have to pay your legal fees.

[ABetaDad1]

I would definitely check with HMRC that tax and Ni has been paid. How do you even know the correct tax and NI has been deducted from the pay he received?

[DoreenLethal]

I would write to them as such:

'
Dear Sir/madam

I started working for you on X date, and gave my notice in on X date with my final day of working on Z date.

For the whole duration of my working with you, I did not receive one payslip, or any notification of tax paid and have not received my P45 from yourselves.

As such, I have been advised that I need to make a request in writing, prior to taking this matter further which may or may not end in a tribunal claim.

So, in order to avoid this, which because it is about your legal requirements to provide Tax and PAYE information and would automatically result in your company having legal fees, this is requesting that you submit to me the following as a matter of urgency:
P45
Payslips for each month that I worked for you
Balancing payment that includes all outstanding untaken leave at the end of my employment.

I need this documentation and payment and if this is not forthcoming, I will have no alternative but to progress this to the next level.

I look forward to a response within 14 days of the date of this letter.

Yours Faithfully

OP's husband'

If you ask for that, you might find that you get the payment and the P45 and then you can see what occurs once you have that.

[NapoleonsNose]

To calculate the holiday owed, have a look at this calculator which should give you an idea of how much you DH is owed.

Echoing the comments above, it definitley would be worth a call to HMRC to make sure that the correct deductions have been made and passed on. Without any official trail, the company could deny that they have had him as an employee. I hope that isn't the case though. I worked for a shoddy employer once, and trying to get them to stick to the law was a nightmare. Karma did bite them though when I finally did go to a tribunal.

[thekingfisher]

JE - Op may not have £160 to lodge claim in the first place...

[JE1234]

They may not but that wasn't the reason given earlier as to why tribunal would be an issue. They can apply to have the fee waived if they can't afford it...

[Quodlibet]

Deducting tax from an employee's pay but then failing to pay it to the taxman would be a fairly serious breach wouldn't it? I remember having to call a company on this once - I called HMRC, who had no record of payments under my NI number, and then called the company back to tell them so. They sorted it pretty sharpish.