SATS are not only for the performance of the school but the child.

[Tortington]

as some of you may be aware i am on a mild warpath with school - an issue i didn't refer to you previously came up regarding my daughter having temp teachers in science because her reg teach was off sick.

my daughter asked me to intervene as she thought she was not making the same progress as her peers - so i send an e-mail today.

in the e-mail i stated that i had two bones to pick

1. lack of consistency with science teaching
   
2. that the sats determined my daughters place in the class hierarchy next year.
   
   i stated that as far as i was aware SATS were to monitor progress of school.
   
   anyway.
   
   teach phoned me up - a more obnoxious person i have never ever spoken to in my entire life.
   
   after lengthy conversation it turns out teach is coming back ( hopefully) after xmas.
   
   and that sats were to appraise the performance of the child.
   oh says i - i thought they were a govt initiative to monitor the performance of the school.
   
   yes says she and the child.
   
   no says i - i think its just the school
   yes says she - the child can move upor down depending on performance - anyway your child can come see me for extra work.
   
   i am now diverted grrr
   
   then says i - but after 3.5 - 4 hours a day at school its a bit rubbish that daughter has to ask or extra work
   
   well mrs custardo - i am still here. i haven't done my marking - we all have to work extra.
   
   fucking fuckity fuck - wish i was more articulate -bnecuase all i could think was.... well my daughter will be lucky to be in your position as a paid qualified anything at this rate.
   
   but i didnt't i thanked her for her time.
   
   
   point is this.
   
   are sats for a school to monitor the performance of its children and sort them into classes based on this performance
   
   hence
   
   i hasten to add qwuality of work and teaching goes along with what class your in - because those less capable just dont get the same quality and thats that.
   
   so chances of moving up are shit - not the point
   
   point is
   
   is there any quote, source anything i can use to send to this obnoxious person to prove i am right.
   
   if i am
   
   am i
   maybe i'mn ot
   
   i have always taught my children not to worry - my daughter worries - about exams becuse its only to measure the school - not them.
   
   anyway opinions and importantly quotes or links wanted please.

[FrostyTheSnowMarsLady]

[Tortington]

bump

[southeastastra]

i always thought sats went part way to determine which class your child would be in next.

[Tortington]

asrse really?

crap.

[Milliways]

They used year 9 SATS to determine sets for GCSE at DD's school. She had to get her level 7 to take the 3 separate sciences.

We also had a parents evening when they based GCSE success on Yr9 SAT results! (How level 8 maths helps you pass French & geography etc, I don't know, but to do with work ethic etc.)

[ptmum]

SATs are there to 'track'(gov language) the performance of the child and ensure they are ' on target' I ,and many other teachers, hate them and yes they are really there to monitor schools perfomance but I have no evidence or proof of this - just bitter experience

[ParanoidSurreyHousewife]

Well according the the direct.gov website:

"At the end of Key Stages 2 and 3 your child will take national tests. The tests ? which children can?t ?fail? - are intended to show if your child is working at, above or below the target levels for their age, so that the right plans can be made for their future learning.

They also allow schools to see whether they are teaching effectively, by looking at their pupils? performance against national results."

So, yes they're meant to do both. So in terms of your second bone, yes it is reasonable to expect that dd would be put into a class set based on her SAT results. But certainly it doesn't have to be the only determinant of which class she should be in - the school does have some freedom.

[Tortington]

crap.
crap crap.

she has to do homework becuase of failure of school to provide decent adequate teachers

wish i could complain

[Twiglett]

If I do actually understand what you are talking about (which I'm not completely confident of)

and bearing in mind I am ethically opposed to SATS and think its a crap and detrimental initiative by a cynical govt. paying lip service to education

SATS are to measure the school AND the individual student and to help determine what support / class / grouping they should be in .. hopefully with an aim to improve their level

... so for example at KS1 if a child gets a 2B then they would be expected to increase by 1 grade every 2 years .. so by the end of year 4 they would be expected to get a 4B grading

a school can try to move them up from one grade to another eg from a 2C to a 2B

that's as far as I undersand it anyway

HTH

[Twiglett]

that's based on before the SATS at KS1 were stopped .. I think they've stopped now .. haven't they?

[DizzyBinterWonderland]

flippin 'eck custardo you are having a lot of hassle with teachers at the moment

[Tortington]

ah shit crap. have to admit failure and defeat.

buy balaclava and beat the whole PTA up whilst screaming "educate my children"

thank you anyway.

[wheresthehamster]

What I REALLY hate about SATS is that the teachers actually recommend you buy the revision books.

So you have to buy the books, study them at home, then do well in the SATS to make the school look good.

[southeastastra]

schools are under so much pressure, it's mad.

[saggarmakersbottomknocker]

Mmm whatever did we do before SATs?

Oh I know, the teacher assessed the child on what they did day to day. And they still do this - at least in my kid's schools they do.

[juuule]

The secondary school near us test the kids again in Y7 (CATs, I think) to decide which level they are at. They take no notice of the SATs levels coming out of primary because (according to a teacher I spoke to) the primaries spend so much time cramming and priming the kids for the tests that as soon as the kids have sat the tests they tend to forget most of what went before. So the tests in Y7 are to find out what they actually know.

[MerrilyTooBuzzi]

I hate SATS my dd1 in year 6 has done only SATS work since going back in September. Teacher said after SATS the school day is totally different. Her teacher has been off school for about 9 working days already this term!

Teachers, you cant live with em, you cant live without them!
You certainly cant win an arguement with one, they have seen and done it all before. You might be lucky if you get one that talks to you like an adult and not like your back at school yourself!

I would let it pass on concentrate on not letting your DD more concerned.

Get her involved in lots of stuff/ clubs outside of school where she can achieve things at her own pace away from SATS. Good luck.

[FLAMEinEckItsYuleAgain]

SATs aren't compulsory though. You can withdraw your child from them. A child's teacher (certainly primary) should be able to guage their ability without govt tests.

Yr 9 ones are about all I agree (sort of) with.

I had to have a private maths tutor due to cr*ppy supply cover during GCSE

[isgrassgreener]

Custardo
I listened to a programme on Radio 4 all about what sats are for yesterday.
It wascalled More or Less - Top of the Class, you can hear it if you go to the listen again section. Its only 30 mins but very interesting.

[robinpud]

Custy; can't really help you other than to give you my line which is that YES SATS are a measure of children's progress; BUT they only measure what CAN be measured, so take no account of development in confidence etcetc. As a teacher, I would anticipate that the SATS tell me nothing new about the kids I teach if I am doing my job right.
If you want ammo to beat the school with, (and I don't know exactly which year your dd is in then I would ask to see predictions made for your dd last year, and how they measure up with rest of class and then with SATs outcome. What my addled brain and cold finger is saying CAN YOU PROVE THAT ALL CHILDREN IN HER GROUP ARE FAILING TO MEET THEIR EXPECTED SATS TARGETS BECAUSE THE TEACHER IS NOT VERY UP TO THE JOB?"

OHH poor you.. wish MB was here because she would put it into words much much better than me. Good luck

[MerrilyTooBuzzi]

Hi Robin, hope you didnt mind my teahers comments... I have some lovely friends that are teachers!

[julienetmum]

I'm so glad I can just about afford to scrape the fees together to go private and avoid all this rubbish, I really am.

Custy I feel for you I really do. Am I right in thinking you live in the West Mids. Dh works in schools not too far away from there in an adjoiining LEA and the things he tells me about some (not all) local schools

Is home education an option at all for you as I really think school is failing your children.

[Tortington]

no i live in a lovley very middle class place near the sea where old peoplecome to die. the school is well known for being highly excellent and is becomming one of those 'highly excellent' schools in the field of the arts - can't remember the proper title.

its not rough in the slightest.

take the above into account and then think to yourself that most mummies of these children have part time jobs - if they have one. and are able to attend allschool functions and pay for private tutor for their child.

they are always organised - always

i am never organised becuase i have to get one son off to work, one husband off to work, twins to secondary shool and me to work.

the best i can do is " have you got you pen?"
"have you got your pekit? homework diary?"

i leave a note on wall telling them the order of what they have to do when they get home from school

we have no TV before 6.30

we make special effort ( very recently) to all sit and read in living room

but we all come from wrong side of the tracks you see.

so when i complain i am seen as making a fuss.
delilahs parents complain and fuck me an after school sclub is set up.

seriously. i just feel a twat 100% of the time.

anyway i asked daughter to ask head of science for extra work. which means dh will have to do it with her - becuase if i even think the wrong thing i will blow shit up.

thanks for your advice and allowing me to rant.

[FLAMEinEckItsYuleAgain]

Took me ages to work out what a "pekit" was

No helpful advice, just a big arrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh with you.

[Tortington]

lol sorry