Educational psychologist: how can you get hold of one?

[Chanelno5]

I'm writing this on behalf of my sister. She has a 6 yr old ds who has consistently misbehaved at school despite her and dh's best efforts. She really cannot understand why he behaves as he does, as there doesn't appear to be any obvious reason and his behaviour is ok at home. Also, he does seem generally happy at school. She really is at her wit's end, and after exploring many other avenues, she feels that she would like him to see an educational psychologist to see if there is some underlying reason for his behaviour. However, if possible she would like to do this without the involvement of the school (initially, anyway) as she does not want it to go down on his school records if at all possible.

What she wants to know is how to go about finding one. Can your child only be referred through their school or GP, or can you self refer? Any help here would be much appreciated. Also, what are your experiences with educational psychologists (good or bad)? Thanks very much in advance!

[Robinw]

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[Ariel]

My dd has alot of special needs and is under the care of a doctor at our local hospital,he referred her to see a educational psychologist a few months ago not so much regarding her behaviour but her strong resistance towards her physio and ot,although our visit was painless and much of it involved her history it was of little use to us of course your sisters situation sounds quite different,and may be very helpfull to take this route. Im pretty certain you have to be referred by a doctor. are you (or your sister i mean ) sure her ds isnt haveing problems at school,my 6 yr old ds was haveing loads of problems last year and was almost suspended, after being moved class he is now a changed child, he now enjoys school and is learning much faster and weve had no reports of bad behaviour since he moved.I came to the conclusion as did his teacher that he clashed with some children in his previous class and that caused his bad behaviour.

[Tigermoth]

Hmmm at a guess, I would say you could see an educational psychologist privately, but without any teacher or school input, would it be very effective? You say your friend's child is well behaved at home, so your friend will have little first-hand experience of exactly how her son misbehaves in class - so she won't be able to enlighten the person she sees.

Also, is there a difference between an educational psychologist and a more general child psychologist?

Is your friend's child is fine academically - no special needs there? Would, therefore, an educational psychologist be the right person to see? Why not get her to phone up her local education department and ask some general questions about this.

You could also suggest your friend posts a message on the 'Ask the Experts' sections here.

Lastly, how does the school view his behaviour? If his teachers feel his problems do not merit the help of an educational psychologist, why, if you don't mind me asking, do his parents feel he needs to see one? Is the school good at recognising and dealing with special needs children?

My son is not the best behaved in school but his teachers say this is within 'normal' bounds and can be dealt with inside the school - his main problem is his concentration level. They have never recommended an educational pshchologist for that - and as you know, he's just changed schools so I'm putting such things on hold and will review things when he's settled in.

In the meantime I'll be looking at any messages here with much interest.

[Chanelno5]

I should probably give you a few more details so that you get a better understanding of the situation. My nephew had quite a difficult birth - long labour, cord round his neck, forceps and needed resuscitation at birth. He was quite a demanding baby - never slept for long, wanted to breastfeed almost every hour and always quite clingy towards my sister. As a toddler, he was a late talker, although an early walker and out of nappies day and night at age 2 and a half. My sister had her dd when he was 22 months.

He has always found it difficult to get along with other children, used to hit out at toddler groups and continued to when he started playschool. Has never been very good in group situations, but on a one-to-one is great. He is now at his 3rd school, the first move was because my sister moved to a different area. At the 2nd school, he continued to have problems and the teachers really could not handle him, which was a shame as it was an excellent school. Now, he is in a private school. Academically, he is brilliant, reads and writes very well for his age, although sometimes he is too clever for his own good, if you know what I mean, and will answer teachers back with almost adult-like reasoning and confidence. He has never really had many friends, my sister says he seems quite awkward in the company of other children, and that they seem scared of him.

I know that I am being long-winded about this, but I just wanted to set the scene a bit. In a nutshell, his problems are: he has quite a temper on him, very competitive and doesn't have much patience with those who can't match him, can be aggressive towards other children sometimes for no apparent reason, can be disrespectful to teachers and other adults, usually in the form of answering back or arguing with them.

As I said before, there really doesn't seem to be any obvious reason for his behaviour. My sister and her dh have made a real effort with him, and tried many different approaches, but really to no avail, so you can see how she is beginning to despair. We all know that at 6, he is still quite young, and most teachers say that he will grow out of it, but anyone who has been in this situation knows that it doesn't really help you in the meantime. I really feel for my sister, and I know to an extent how she feels, as I had problems (although different ones to my nephews) with my eldest ds at playschool, though now he is in full-time school, he is doing great. I really don't know what I can suggest for my sister to try which is why I turned to Mumsnet. I don't think that I found a miracle cure for my ds that I can pass on to her, rather that I was lucky to find the right school for my ds where he is settled and happy. It is really frustrating as we know that he can have a sweet, loving and vulnerable side, but can't understand why he persistently does things that he knows are wrong. So you see, my sister is worried that she may be missing something which is obvious to an expert, but would prefer to find the help by herself at this stage. The school he is at now have not mentioned an educational psychologist, but the school he was at before did. Really, my sister has thought about him seeing one as she, dh and the rest of the family have tried everything else but nothing seems to be working.

Thanks for your comments so far. I have just written this as it's come into my head and as I remember what my sister has told me, so I hope it makes some sense. Any further comments/ideas very welcome.

[Winnie]

Chanelno5, the description yo give of your nephew sounds very similar to the behaviour of a friend's child, he has been diagnosed with aspergers and the acknowledgement and treatment (he doesn't have medication but has specialised help in school etc., [some children do have medication])has had a wonderful effect. There is a thread on aspergers maybe you could take a look.
Good luck to your sister and her family, and well done you for being so supportive. Whether your nephew has aspergers or not the hardest thing my friend found with her very difficult child was peoples lack of understanding and determination to judge...

[Tigermoth]

Chanelno5, thanks for adding more information. The situation must be very frustrating for your sister. Can I ask, how long has her son been at his new school? has the change made any difference? I assume the answer is 'no',otherwise you wouldn't be posting ....

You say his previous school mentioned seeing an educational psychologist. IMO that's a very strong reason for pursuing this line of action, whether through the new school or independently.

BTW is it at all possible that the old school might have put this recommendation on your nephew's school records? If your sister is concerned about this aspect, it would be worth finding out. Could she ask to have a copy of his school records - they would be useful anyway if she takes her son to see an educational psychologist privately.

The other thing your sister might want to think about is getting her son allergy tested, if she has not already done so. An allergic reaction to something might also be at the root of his behaviour problems. Again, as with aspergers, there are message threads about this here on mumsnet.

I understand that an allergy test is a simple blood test, done by your GP. This is something I am considering for my son in six months or so, if his concentation is not improving. Then, if nothing shows up, I might take it further.

Hope your sister is not worrying too much - if she can get on the internet she might find it helps to read through some of the old message threads here. If I remember rightly, they include links to some other useful websites.

[Marina]

Winnie, you took the words right out of my mouth. Chanelno5, has he ever been assessed for Asperger's? It does sound a possibility. It might account for his diffidence in group situations, his late talking (yet now almost adult in his interaction) and some of the other things you describe. Although Asperger's is an autistic spectrum disorder, it can affect an individual only mildly, so not immediately apparent at all. Asperger's and austistic children can also be very bright and do extremely well with the extra help Winnie mentions.

[Chanelno5]

Thanks again for all your helpful and supportive comments. I will look up the threads on Aspergers, actually now I come to think about it, I remember looking at snippets of them and it did set alarm bells ringing at the time. I think my sister has probably thought of this herself as she is very clued up about health issues and I think it is why she is so keen to seek professional help.

Tigermoth - to answer you questions, he has been at his present school for 1 year. As to whether he is really improving, it's hard to tell as I think that his teachers are very good at dealing with his problems by themselves, and only speak to my sister when things start getting really out of hand. I think that they also realise that she is really trying her best and is very distressed by it all, so try not to 'drag' her in unless absolutely necessary. To be honest with you, I think she is beyond the worrying about it stage and is quite despairing of him.

Winnie - how true your words are! I think that one of the hardest things that my sister has to deal with is people judging her as a mother and writing her son off as a 'nasty' child rather than one who potentially has special needs. She really feels that other mothers avoid her because of her son's behaviour, which is a real shame as she is a very loyal, kind and good-humoured person.

Marina - thanks also for your positive comments. I think the fact that two of you have both mentioned Aspergers, warrants a closer look.

I really wish that my sister could come across supportive people like you in the 'real' world, as I know that she feels very alone.

[Robinw]

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[Robinw]

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[Chanelno5]

Robinw - Thanks for your comments. I will pass on all of this info to my sister, I'm sure that she will be really pleased to see that a few other options are available. It was good to read Lou33's posting, I'm really glad that she achieved such a positive outcome for her daughter.

[Tufty]

q quickie before I do the school run... Cnanelno5 it sounds as if your sister could access help by telling all to her GP who could then refer him to a clinical psychologist for his social and behaviour problems. This way you wouldn't have to wait until he'd reached the right record of concern educationally, but if the Clinical psychologist felt there was a diagnosis to be made that would give help at school and advice on managing behaviour etc at home, although the whole process can take time as I expect he'll need an IQ test etc. Sometimes very bright children present in this way but it could be something else and its better to try to find out asap so he ( and the family) get the help and support they need.
good luck... let me know! (Oh and it may be worth contacting NAGC and the National autistic society, just to see if there are any pointers there...

[Chanelno5]

Thanks Tufty!

[tufty]

Just wondered how its all going??

[ChanelNo5]

Tufty - Sorry to hear you've been going through such a tough time lately, but glad to hear that things are going well. Regarding the problems with my nephew, things are 'ok' at the moment, but you know that I will be coming your way if I need some more good advice. Love and best wishes to you all, and wishing ds a speedy recovery xx.

[tufty]

Glad to hear things are stable for now. Thanks for your support, too!

[lou33]

I was just about to post about Mary Lobacher to you when I saw someone had quoted me from an older posting!

Mary Lobacher has a new number i believe, which is 0207 624 9347, so I hope she is able to help you.

How strange finding myself being quoted!