Divorced and my 14 yr old son wants to live with me (dad)

[swissfil]

Any advice would be most helpful pls.
I knew there was going to come a time when my son started to resent his mothers controlling behaviour....

We divorced over 4 years ago, he lives with mum and i see him every other weekend from 6pm Friday to 6pm Sunday. Thats only been happening for two yrs, before that i was only allowed to pick him up on a Saturday morning 10am and drop back 4pm Sunday - that is allegedly a weekend! I take him to school 3 mornings and he comes for tea every weds 4-7pm. Holidays are shared generally, apart from christmas day when i can see him for 2/3 hours only!

He has matured a lot over the last yr, and we still do stuff together, outdoorsy mostly, climbing, mountain biking, shooting, sailing etc. Mostly boys stuff but we do still bake cakes and generally cook, watch movies etc. Obviously as he is getting older he wants to see his mates which is totally fine and i accept that.
For the last few yrs (he's only just 14) he has expressed a wish to stay with me on a Sunday night and i drop him off at school on Monday. He couldn't quite get to grips with wanting to live wth me then, although we have discussed it and I appreciated that it would be harder for him to leave his mum behind, and not sure at that age it was the best idea anyway, so i supported him through this and we seemed to get through it, mainly by using communication channels, texting phone etc, although i only live 2 miles away and see him regularly, i felt it best if we communicated on a regular basis so he new i was here and thinking about him.
I live on my own, have a new partner who he likes and we have all been on holiday together, she has no kids, its all good fun and no stress like the past.

So about 6 months ago i approached my ex and asked whether she would consider letting him stay on a Sunday night as he had expressed a wish to and he was approaching 14, which i sort of deemed to be an age where his wishes would count for something. The answer was not just a no, but a long rant followed by lots of swearing. My son has tried to broach the subject with her himself, but she just shouts at him, which i don't think is fair personally, all this isn't his fault. Not sure if she realises that he is building up quite a lot of resentment, she is a not a bad parent, however, she is also a heavy smoker and drinker and regularly stays in bed till 12 when he's there. She doesn't do a great deal with him either, he wanted to go and see James bond with her (i suggested he asked her first) but she's far to busy for the next 3 weeks to make time for that she says!

So its come to crunch time, and for the last few months he has been so unhappy that he's told me he wants to leave home to live with me on a weekly basis, and this time it is serious. Now i know legally he can't until he's 16 unless both parents agree this is right. I know she won't say yes, if he leaves of his own accord (which he may well do) i will have a duty to return him to her, otherwise i will be in deep not just with her but the police potentially. He will then feel let down by me, I've explained that any decision has to be mutual between us parents, but he can't see it. Trouble is if she did give a bit more slack i don't think he would be so desperate to leave. but now he is and its going to affect him mentally.
Its tearing him up and its tearing me up and i feel really badly guilty about it all. Luckily i think i am coping at the moment though, but I'm worried about him.
WHAT DO I DO ??????? HELP

thx in anticipation

Phil 49 bristol

[VimFuego101]

It's not quite true that he has to be 16. A court would look at whether he was mature and competent enough to make that decision and his opinion would form the majority of their decision (assuming you have a stable job and home to offer him). I would take legal advice on this. If your ex fights it it may be a long and messy process. Do you have a residency agreement in place at the moment?

[purpledasies]

We're having similar issues with my DSD at the moment - she's 15. Her DM, is fortunately not quite as unhinged as your ex sounds and for now has compromised on her staying here one extra night a week and other "occasional" nights. In reality she's been here 4 or more nights a week for the last month at least. One thing my DH did which seemed to soften an initially harsh response from his ex to the request for an extra night was to reassure her that he didn't intend to reduce the money he paid her at all. It's kind of annoying to have to do this - as he's now paying child support for a child who's actually mainly living with us, but we can afford it, and I think it did help smooth things over to letting her have an extra night here. I;m hoping she'll manage with that for this year, and then next year she'll be 16 so it'll be easier to change things if she wants to. It's difficult when they have a poor relationship with their mum - because you really want that to be better, but if they spend less time with their DM that's probably not going to improve things either, but then if the relationship is making them miserable and essentially not providing the parenting that they need, you do need to ensure they're with you enough of the time for you to be able to do it instead.

You could return to court and ask to have your DS living mainly with you, but you'd have to suggest some reasonable contact with his mum. My understanding is that the court would listen to what your DS wants at his age, though it might cause a lot of conflict and upset with his DM, which might be difficult for him. If she lives nearby you could have some more even split if that works for your DS. Some kids seem to manage fine with two homes - my own DS is 15 and still spends 2 nights a week at his dad's and his happy with this. My DD meanwhile is 12 but finds two homes too complicated so now comes back home in the evening most times after she's gone to her dad's - so depends on your DS, his lifestyle and his organisational abilities how feasible this is.

[swissfil]

Thx for speedy replies everyone, quite reassuring.

yes i do have a stable job, I'm self employed but have been running a kitchen and bathroom design and build business for 8 yrs. Income is enough but i still rent, most of my equity (at least it used to be mine) went to my ex, so will be a few yrs before i can buy again. But my life is stable and changed a lot from when i was married.

The result for me and my son would be if he can just do an extra night at weekends and night every week, i think that would lessen the unhappiness for him, and when he turns 16 he can make up his own mind. As much as i dislike my ex she is still his mother, and dragging it out through court will not be the best option at the moment, financially and otherwise. The backlash would be unbearable for both me and him. And i just don't think its right. Compromise is what I'm looking to her for.

I lost my dad when i was 12, he was in hospital for 2 yrs before that, so i know how it feels as a young boy to not have a father around , and it is .

The long and short is i feel terribly lucky that my son and i have a good honest relationship, there are many of us that don't have that, male or female and that makes me feel even more guilty for even talking about this really.

My son had an operation last week to remove some metal wires from his elbow (broke it 6 months ago) just being in a hospital with so many very ill children really humbled me. This was a stupid accident jumping off some stairs, but some kids we saw last week had real problems.

god bless all xx

[swissfil]

we do have a residency agreement in place, and although i was never sent a copy it was basically saying she is the resident parent, and i would have contact at weekends alternating and contact in the week. I feel let down that my solicitor did not explain that although this at the time felt reasonable, it effectively means nothing can change unless both parents agree.

[swissfil]

btw what is a DM DSD DS etc....? My DS was my Drill Sergeant !! or Directing Staff

[purpledasies]

There's a list of acronyms here:
www.mumsnet.com/info/acronyms

Does your residency agreement come from when you divorced? If so, I'm not sure it has so much legal weight as it would if you'd actually gone to court to get it. I was confused in relation to my step daughther (DSD) and people were telling me on here how they differ. If it's just what you agreed at the time of the divorce, I think you're not breaking any laws by keeping your son with you additional nights, but you would be if it was a formal court agreement. Either way I would have thought you should have a copy of it. But I agree that you're right, it's much better if you can come to a different arrangement with his mother's agreement. You might want to have a look on the step parenting board on mumsnet - as there's often posts from women who are married to non-resident fathers (and from the fathers too sometimes) with similar issues to yours.

[Micah]

Can I ask, what's to stop a child choosing to live with one parent or another?

DH has no formal agreement in place. The kids were young when she kicked him out so they stayed with her by default (plus he was homeless), and when he asked a solicitor about him being the RP he was told it would cost him a lot of money and he was unlikely to win.

Why is there no court ordered RP initially when a relationship breaks up? Why is one parent allowed to keep the children without the others consent? Just seems a bit mad to me that a woman can kick a man out, say she's keeping the children, and it's seen as normal.

Now SDc is 15, and might choose to live with us, similar to o/p. What's to stop her just moving in, even if her mum disagrees?

[SealSong]

If there is no residence order or any other court or legal order in place and you have parental responsibility (which you will have as you were married) then I can't see any reason why your son can't just move in with you, even if it is against his mother's wishes. I don't think she could actually stop him doing that legally, however she could then go to court to attempt to get a residence order. If she did then go to court you can argue your corner and your son's wishes would be taken into account.

Best thing might be to get an appointment with solicitors specialising in family law, and find out what the situation is.

Good luck, you sound like a lovely dad.

[purpledasies]

Micah - your situation might be different from the OP's depending on whether your DH was married to his ex. If he wasn't then he probably doesn't have PR for his DD, so if DD simply moved in with you she could be simply returned home by the poilce if necessary. The law changed in 2003 so that unmarried fathers did get PR as long as they were named on the birth certificate.

There's no court order because neither your DH nor his ex have ever asked for there to be one. The courts don't go getting involved in dictating people's lives unless they're asked to by one of the parents. Most people sort things out amicably enough without needing court orders.

With a 15 year old, might be simpler to leave things alone til she's 16, unless you can get an agreement with the mum to let them stay more or move in, or things are really bad with her mum

[swissfil]

The contact agreement/arrangement as i think it was known then was issued as part of the divorce settlement. It outlined contact arrangements but not in any great detail such as pick up or drop off times, or even a percentage of his whole life spent with me. It works out that he only spends about 10% of his waking time with me! If my solicitor had told me that there would be no changes to this regime without mutual consent then i may have done things a bit differently. As far as i am aware though this is not a court order as i have a piece of paper from the court saying that they did not need to exercise their power under the children act 1989. Think that mediation will have to be the first step to try and get her to understand this is about his wishes not ours.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

I was about to suggest mediation and many mediation services will chat with your son and then be his advocate with his parents.

[Morganly]

You sound like a great dad and I really respect your wish to sort this out amicably and avoid legal conflict. However, I want to make two points. Your son is very much of the age that plays parents off against each other in order to get what they think they want (more freedom, more fun, less discipline etc) but may change their minds after the novelty has worn off. Secondly, don't take your new partner's acquiescence for granted. She may find she can cope with him with the current level of contact but may not be so happy if he is with you all the time.

[TheFormidableMrsC]

I would suggest that what you actually have is a "Statement of Arrangements" which has no legal bearing whatsoever. Believe me, my ex-h has broken every undertaking he made in ours and it is not a court order. Firstly, I would see if your ex would agree to mediation, you would be expected to do that anyway if a court application was a possibility. The application itself is very easy to do and you do not need a solicitor. You would be assigned a CAFCASS officer who would speak directly to your DS. Hopefully, this can be avoided and you can come to an agreement with your ex. This will be very hurtful for her though, bear that in mind...

[purpledasies]

In my experience, if you can come up with some practical reasons why staying over with you on whatever night of the week is a good idea it goes down much better than implying that the child just prefers being at yours more.

But we have run into difficulties with my DSD where she's been with Mum very little and her Mum was really not parenting her (no help with homework, unaware when coursework due in, or what was going on in her life more generally) I'm unsure whether the lack of time she's been spending there was cause or consequence of this weak relationship, but do think that once you start having a child 50% or more of the time it's not just about feeding them extra meals, but also about becoming their primary carer and having that overall handle on their life. I don't think my DH fully appreciated this until it became all too apparent that DSD's needs weren't being meet by either parent.

[atticusclaw2]

My close friend's DS wants to live with his father at the moment (against her wishes) and his father lives overseas. The court will find out from the child what they want (via CAFCASS) and her solicitor and barrister have advised that in all likelihood if the child wants to go they go. Her DS is only 13 and she is heartbroken but there is nothing she can do about it.

[swissfil]

Thanks for the advice all of you, many different things to consider here.

My son has been asking about living with me since i left the marital home 4.5 yrs ago. I have endeavoured to steer him away from this idea as i did not think it was the best thing at the time. He was a child then and now he is turning into a young man. This is not about playing one parent off against the other as it has been in his mind since day one and we have always been open with each other and discussed it, hard as it was to do that. I believe that we have moved from parents deciding what is best for him, to him wanting to be happy in these first yrs as a teenager. I still don't think that living with me is necessarily the best solution, the enormous trauma that this would cause is not justifiable. However, when he is texting me on just about a daily basis asking me if I've spoken to his mum about him living with me, and backing this up with "I'm getting to the point where i really want to move out Dad" i simply cannot ignore the situation or stall it any longer. Going through this period in his life is hard enough in a stable family, add to this the enormous unhappiness he is displaying and i dread to think where it could end up.

I talk to him openly about sex, drugs, girls, getting into trouble etc etc. He trusts me and i trust him, he needs to be treated like a human being now not a small child. Key thing is that his mum doesn't really want him to grow up.

I am not a pushover Dad btw, and don't just give him meals. I have and will continue to be fairly strict and discipline him where required. I help and monitor his school work, and he does his homework when he stays with me, but voluntarily without me standing over him.
Believe me he doesn't think he's going to get an easy life if he does end up with me.
As far as my partner is concerned, she is fully supportive of me and my wishes, she has always accepted that my son will have to come first in our relationship from the start, and she enjoys being a part of it. We have talked a lot about it and it will not be an issue. In any case that is not a reason for my son not to live with me, worst case scenario, i just become a single dad again !
The last time i came on here was just before i left, and back then my now ex was insistent that my son (as a 9 yr old then) should not have a bath unsupervised ! I just wanted to make sure it wasn't me that thought this a bit odd so came here to get some backup. This continued after i left for at least a yr. He only stopped sleeping in her bed two yrs ago, she was in control of that situation as well and let it run, to the extent in my view that it was becoming unhealthy.

Im going to see a solicitor next week to see what options are available.

A friend has suggested that he writes her a letter to outline what he would like to happen, and explain how difficult he feels about it. is this good idea?

Thanks all for your kind words

[TheFormidableMrsC]

OP, I totally hear what you're saying. I would most definitely organise a mediation session for both you and your ex-wife and I imagine the solicitor will say the same. I really think that is the first step forward. In my opinion (and others may differ), your DS writing his Mum a letter is not a good idea. I imagine that will be extremely difficult for her to read. I can't imagine how devastated I'd be if I received a letter like that from my DS or my DD for that matter. I really think you need to follow the mediation route first and eventually maybe a session to include your DS, who at 14 is clearly old enough to form his own opinions. However, if Mum chooses not to agree (or to be fair to her, feels unable to agree, I know I would struggle with that), then you will have no choice but to go via court.