short luteal phase - please help :{

[katster37]

OK, this might be quite long....
I have regular (26 - 29 days) cycles and we have recently started TTC. I have been checking cervical mucous and get EWCM from about CD14 - 19, and so I am presuming I OV on CD19 -r 20. As my AF arrives on CD29 I can only have a LP of max 9 days.
The last three months I have been taking B6 and Agnus Castus - to absolutely no avail. This month, I had EWCM from CD11 - 18 (a LOT - could it be from Red Raspberry Leaf??) and AF arrived yesterday - CD 26. I am feeling distraught. In fact, my eyes are so puffy as I have been crying so much. DH just says to be patient, but it is physically impossible to conceive with such a short LP so what's the point? My GP says a luteal phase defect is a myth (?!) and she is supposedly an Ob/Gyn specialist. I am seeing a different GP this morning in the hope that they will at least do a Day 21 blood test. My AF is heavy, lasting about 6 days with clots so I am concerned I may have endometriosis or something. Can anyone please please please offer some suggestions? I really feel this is making me ill, I am sodesperate to have a baby and was sure this was our month. Thanks in advance.

[littlemiss26]

just a little ray of hope... I was keeping track of my ovulation dates and periods and i found that i had a luteal phase of 8-9 days for the 3 months i was charting so i was just going to give it a couple more months and see a doctor BUT I got pregnant the following cycle, so i don't know if that means luteal phases can change every month or whether you can still get pregnant with a short luteal phase?? but it isn't necessarily a problem. how much B6 have you taken each day - 200mg is recommended if tryng to lengthen luteal phase

[puppydetox]

i've never charted for conception, but i did for a while for contraception, and noticed then that i had a short luteal phase, so much so i was concerned that i'd have problems if i wanted to conceive again. in fact i got pg the first (or 2nd? don't quite remember) month of trying. so it may be that the short luteal phase doesn't matter, or that it can sort itself out without intervention.

[puppydetox]

btw i agree w/lottie, you need to temp to be sure of when you're ovulating.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

LPD is controversial; some say it is a problem, others not.

If your cycles are quite regular as well I would not take AC at all as it can affect cycles and make them irregular. It is not wise to self medicate with AC anyway; if you want to use AC you are better off seeking the advice of a medical herbalist beforehand.

You should also be looking into having day 3 tests done (these will measure LH and FSH) as well as having a day 21 test. The day 21 test is only part of the story.

LH and FSH are two very important hormones as these kickstart the whole ovulation process. If these two are awry then ovulation will be affected.

If your AF is heavy as well then you should be checked to see if fibroids are present (as these can cause heavy bleeding).

Endometriosis is usually (but not always) associated with very painful periods. If your periods happen to be very painful as well as heavy then this should be checked for as well. I would say though that endometriosis is often only diangosed through a laparoscopy (keyhole surgery op). NO other test will detect it.

Do not just concentrate on a potential LPD being the problem but look at the overall picture.

You will need to be persistant in order to get answers.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Even with regular periods as well temp charting is not infallible (you can get a rise in temp in the second half of the cycle when an egg has not actually been shed); you need bloodwork done as well to get a fully accurate picture.

[katster37]

Thanks so much for all your replies.
Well, I am back from seeing a second GP who also denied the existence of LP defect. She said 'most women ovulate on day 14, so aim to have sex around thne' - eeer, thanks, how helpful!!!
We haven't been TTC for that long (although it feels like it) but I have checked CM for over a year and read Take Charge of your Fertility as we used this for contraception before (we would have been happy with an 'accident' at the time!)
I am going to buy a thermometer now, and start temping from as soon as it arrives. I have tried OPKs before, but never managed to get a + before. I don't know if this is because I wasn't ever very persistent (they are expensive!) or because I don't ovulate, but the GP I spoke to says the best indicator of ovulation is regular periods, and as they are regular, she said she wouoldn't do any tests of any variety for another 4 months.
BTW, she also asked me what my DH's semen was like... Is that a normal Q?!I was quite taken aback!
Thanks again for your replies. I will up my B6 dosage to 200mg this months as well (from 100mg).
Does anyone have any experience of natural progesterone cream?

[katster37]

Also, Attila I was wondering why you advise against AC? I didn't know it was controversial. Apparently it is v good at lengthening LPs?

[katster37]

Also, could anyone tell me if it is better to buy a thermometer in fahrenheit or centigrade? I am thinking F would be more accurate?

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Just a normal basal thermometer bought from the chemist will do. You do not have to spend a load of money on one. I would however, say that some medical people will not take any notice of such charts primarily because in their view they are unreliable. I am not suggesting that you don't chart at all, just bear in mind that the chart may actually get dismissed.

AC can encourage more LH hormone to be produced hence it should be used with caution particularly if it is self prescribed. It can also make a hormonal imbalance if it is present worse. If your LH and FSH levels are okay then you may not need to take this at all. Hence the counsel given anyway to seek the advice of a medical herbalist. Not saying you should not take it but would seek advice beforehand on its suitability.

Think your GP displayed ignorance by stating that most women ovulate on the 14th day. They most certainly do not!!!. Ovulation is not an exact science and ovulation can occur earlier, later or not at all in any given cycle.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

You may find this information on LPD helpful:-

The three main causes of luteal phase defect include poor follicle production, premature demise of the corpus luteum, and failure of the uterine lining to respond to normal levels of progesterone. These problems occur at different times during the cycle but can also be found in conjunction with each other.

Poor follicle production occurs in the first half of the cycle. In this case, the woman may not produce a normal level of FSH, or her ovaries do not respond strongly to the FSH, leading to inadequate follicle development. Because the follicle ultimately becomes the corpus luteum, poor follicle formation leads to poor corpus luteum quality. In turn, a poor corpus luteum will produce inadequate progesterone, causing the uterine lining to be adequately prepared for the implantation of a fertilized embryo. Ultimately progesterone levels may drop early and menses will arrive sooner than expected resulting in luteal phase defect.

Premature failure of the corpus luteum can occur even when the initial quality of the follicle/corpus luteum is adequate. In some women the corpus luteum sometimes does not persist as long as it should. Here, initial progesterone levels at five to seven days past ovulation may be low; even if they are adequate, the levels drop precipitously soon thereafter, again leading to early onset of menses and hence a luteal phase defect.

Failure of the uterine lining to respond can occur even in the presence of adequate follicle development and a corpus luteum that persists for the appropriate length of time. In this condition, the uterine lining does not respond to normal levels of progesterone. Therefore, if an embryo arrives and tries to implant in the uterus, the uterine lining will not be adequately prepared, and the implantation will most likely fail.

[katster37]

Thank-you, Attila, your response was very helpful. I was actually shocked when my GP told me I probably ovulated on day 14 - I most certainly will not be seeing her again! She also started telling me about her own cycle, which again was not particularly helpful!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

That's quite alright. Thought you may also want to know about causes of LPD as well.

If you do go back to the GP I would see another doc in the practice.

[punchy]

Katster, my cycle sounds as if it's exactly the same as yours. I ovulate late in cycle and then my period comes around 8/9 days later.

I went to GP and she said it wasn't a problem but did a 21 day test anyway. I thought I hadn't even ovulated by the day I had the test. The results came back as normal but then it wouldn't have been testing my hormones 7 days after ovulation??? All a bit unsatisfactory...

I'm just going to try to relax about it and get jiggy regularly throughout the month and see what happens! Having searched on the internet A LOT it does seem that people do get pregnant with short luteal phases so maybe many doctors dismiss it for a reason(she thinks hopefully). I've also just upped my dose of B6 to 200mg a day.

Was also thinking about early detecting pregnancy tests... if they can work 5/6 days early then for the average woman surely that would be around 9 days post ovulation???

[katster37]

Hi punchy. At least your GP would do the day 21 test, I feel like my whole surgery is conspiring against me - why do they not acknowledge the short luteal phase thing?! Although, yes, you do hear of people conceiving with it don't you (have also done much googling!) so let's hope we are the same.
I'm also now taking 200mg of B6.
Hmm not sure about the early detection tests - I suppose I worry that even if it manages to implant, if your body has already geared up for AF then it would need longer than a day to turn itself around, IYSWIM? Not sure. let' sjust hope the B6 gets into action!

[punchy]

Don't know whether you are still watching this, katster, but just wanted to let you know that I did get pregnant this month. My period usually comes 8/9DPO and when it didn't I thought it was a bit odd and started reaching for the tests. BFNs for days until 13DPO when I got a faint BFP. Unfortunately 2 days later I had a v early miscarriage but at least I'm hopeful for next time. It is possible! Thought it might give you hope!