undescended testicles, both balls, both boys.

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Hi
My nearly one year old had his one year check a few weeks ago and the HV couldn't find his testes so advised going to the docs. This prompted us to check our 2.5 ds as well, and we couldn't find his either. Took both to the docs today and she couldn't find any of them :( at birth, and their 6 week check they were both checked and found according to their red books. Doc says this can't have been true as she would be able to feel the testicles in the groin, and there's no way they could have gone back up passed the pubic bone. I mentioned that both husband and I have felt ds1 before, and she said he may have had a very undeveloped one which managed to get back up. She said both boys scrotums are under developed and has referred them to the hospital.
I am so, so worried and annoyed we never thought to check. Not so much with ds2 as he still little, but for ds2 as he's 2.5 and from what Internet says you should operate before they are two. And I'm worried that maybe they don't have any at all? I'm.just so worried.
But also confused, is it likely that 4 different people at their baby checks would get it wrong? Is she wrong about them not being able to retract to be unpalpable? I've no reason to doubt her, she seemed pretty clued up. But then that strikes me as odd. Can any gps or health professionals advise?
Anyone any experience of this? She also said that it was unusual for them both to have it, and perhaps they could have a congenital problem. Which has made me more worried. Please make me feel better with solid hard fact in a positive direction!

[shoopshoopsong]

I have no idea but didn't want to not reply. I agree it seems strange/unlikely that all the initial checks were 'wrong'. I hope you find out soon, you must be very worried, and doctor google never helps that! But don't beat yourself up I doubt many people think to examine their 2yos.

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

I've spoken to gp again today in the hope I'd mis interpreted our conversation yesterday, but it seems not. I just am so confused, I fully believe they were there at six weeks for both of them, as does my husband. But she's adamant they can't have been. The Internet has too many answers but none meet my questions precisely, Argh! Thanks for replying though, at least I know someone has seen this!

[Ediemccreedy]

My ds2 definitely had 2 testicles in his scrotum at 6 weeks. One retracted back up. It was noticed when he was about 6 months. He had surgery (day procedure when only one testicle, usually one night stay when both). It went fine. He has an under-developed scrotum also, which is being monitored. Don't panic, sometimes it's best to stay away from the internet.

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Thanks for posting, do they know why his scrotum is under developed? Is it linked directly to the Lack of testicle? Did you think it was under developed before they said? I thought my son's looked fine, but then I've never seen another little boy naked. They look in proportion though.

[Ediemccreedy]

I said it to the surgeon that his scrotum looked small. He said I suppose it is a little under developed, bring him back in a year after the surgery. I have 2 other boys so it's small compared to theirs. I think that only that I voiced a concern, he would have put it down as a variation of normal. I am not concerned about it. Scrotums change so much as boys grow up. Sorry I am late replying.

[Sneezecakesmum]

Not sure re the scrotal development. Some boys have large scrotums and some small tight ones.

DGSs were down at his first check then one disappeared and old checked about a year ago aged 4. They went for an OP and found when he was under the anaesthetic it descended again. Apparently a tight muscle was preventing it staying down. A small cut to the muscle and he is fine now, so not a proper OP for undescended testicle

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

I would think maybe they would have smaller scrotums if they haven't been expanded by testes over time? Though I'm sure my boys scrotums are pretty normal...thank you for the replies. We're in the system for a hospital appointment now so I guess it's just waiting. I'm still very worried, especially about two year old, that something developmentally has gone wrong. I can't find anything Anywhere so they must have retracted when they were tiny and have never come down again :( I feel awful that we've only just noticed too. I just never, ever, thought about them. Ever.

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Though I am definitely of the opinion that the gp is wrong and they were descended when they were both tiny babies. It's so unlikely all their checks were wrong.I think. I could talk myself into knots about this :(

[Ediemccreedy]

Stop being so hard on yourself. Baby's testicles are so small that you would have to purposely check for them and why would you do that when you were under the impression that they were down? The practice until a couple of years ago was to wait til after 2 years for surgery. The recent guidelines for surgery at 1 year still has not been adopted at many centres. Don't feel bad about it, you are doing your best as a parent.

[retractablepencils]

When my boy was checked at 6 weeks the dr said his testes were fine & if anyone in the future said there was a problem that they were definitely there. he did go on to explain that mistakes can be made finding them when they are older (sorry I can't remember more details as it was 5 yrs ago). Anyway I would assume from that that it might be quite common for GPS to think there is a problem when it turns out things are fine.
sorry I know my post is a bit vague but thought it might be of interest.

[Superworm]

This thread rang bells with me and so I check DS this morning and think he has the same thing. There no testicles that I can see, I can't remember there ever being any now I think about it.

Nobody has ever mentioned it and he is under various peads for other reasons. It's very odd but I now feel bad too. Will take him to the GP Monday. He is also nearly 2.5. You are not alone op!

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

That is interesting retractable thanks, I'm glad you felt inspired to check superworm. Have you had a feel up in his groin to see if you can feel them? Let me know how you get on the doctors, in a strange way, I'm glad it's not just me. It makes you feel awful doesn't it, I can't believe I've never thought about it! Thanks as,well edie, so maybe nothing would've been done by now anyway. That also makes me feel slightly better!

[Superworm]

It does make you feel awful, I've felt a bit tearful today. I did notice how big other babies scrotums were in comparison to DS but the thought process seems to have stopped there!

I've looked in his red book and they were there at the 6 week check apparently. No idea if the are palpable as he won't let me touch him.

If they have retracted they are definitely not coming and going as I can't remember the last time I saw them. His scrotum is always wrinkled and difficult to clean but I assumed it was normal, which is silly now I think about it.

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Thing is, for both of us, as they were there and it was never mentioned to check them I just didn't. I just assumed all was ok. I'm hoping the assumption was correct but like you, I don't think his have been down for a LONG time. I never really see my friends kids without nappies so just presumed that all little boys had little bits. I hope you can find them if he let's you have a feel. I keep trying and there just isn't anything there. :(

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

How did the gp visit go today?

[Superworm]

Couldn't get an appointment until tomorrow so I'm heading down there in the morning.

Still no sign of them and can't feel them either

[sarahsarahw]

I can understand your worry, it's bad enough when DS has one undescended testicle, so having two sons where both appear to have disappeared must be scary!

To allay your fears about DS1: My DH had his done at 3.5 and it's smaller than the other but developed well enough :) Get the surgery done as soon as possible though, it's easier on the child if done earlier, and my DH still carries the mental scars of being in hospital and aware of what's going on but not understanding it.

Have you tried feeling your DS's testicles? It's easiest to do in a hot bath with him sitting/lying crossed legged. This is what the consultant will do when you get to see them; it may just be that they're very shy. And a GP isn't an expert, she can make mistakes :)

Do let us know how you get on - thinking of you.

[Superworm]

Back from the GP and they are not there. She said they've not been there for a while as his scrotums is underdeveloped.

He needs surgery so we are waiting for that. Thank god I read this thread!

Are you waiting for a surgical referral too op?

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Yes sarahsarah, I've been hunting for weeks in.different circumstances and no sign :(
We've been referred superworm so just waiting for an appt now. What did your gp say about your son's? Does she think they are undescended or retracted? I'm.interested to.compare what she said to mine as she was adamant they couldn't have gone back up so far.

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Did she say that was why his scrotum was underdeveloped? Mine mentioned an underdeveloped scrotum but didn't say if it was a direct result of having no balls in it.

[Superworm]

She didn't specify but I'm assuming g retracted. The red book says they were there at the 6 week check and it was the same GP that did the review.

As there is nothing noted as abnormal on the newborn exam in the red book. I think it's been at least 1.5-2 years since I've seen them though, which makes me feel shit.

She didn't comment much on the scrotum apart from adding to my suggestion that it appears underdeveloped. She did say it could be congenital as he has a couple of other congenital conditions. No really sure what that means but I will ask more about that when I see the surgeon next week.

If both you boys had no concerns at birth and 6 week review I find I hard to believe you GP is right tbh.

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

It does make you feel shit doesn't it, I suspect it's been as.long with my eldest. Now I think about it I don't know why the hell I didn't check :( I wish I knew if there was a direct correlation between the development of the scrotum and the testicle thing, as that's another thing that's making me worry its developmental. That's great you've got an appointment so quickly, have they got you an urgent one? I hope all is ok with your little boy x

[sarahsarahw]

While there are other causes for an underdeveloped scrotum, but really the most likely cause is there are no balls in it.

The scrotum is made of stretchy skin (think how it shrinks when cold) and without something inside to force it to take up more room, it's going to lie flat. Wen the surgeon brings down the testicles he won't have a problem - they might be a bit tight for a while but will then develop normally

If he was 17 and it was underdeveloped it would be different, but he's young and still growing.

[sarahsarahw]

@twolittleboysonetiredmum I hear you, I spent ages trying to find my DS's too! Thankfully he was cooperative :)

If yours are cooperative, can you feel anything 'pop' under your fingers when you run them down his groin? It should feel like running your fingers over a small lymph node does when examining your breasts. Having lubricated fingers (whether with soapy water or something else ;) ) should help.

I ask because if they've reads ended you should still be able to feel them. They won't be impalpable as you know they descended ok and we're present in the scrotum. It's incredibly tricky to do though, so you may want to wait until you see the consultant.

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Cheers sarahsarah, I'll have another rummage at,bathtime if they feel cooperative. I did manage to find one of my youngests yesterday so hope prevails for him. Nothing yet with the eldest though, and when I have been feeling around it doesn't feel like there is as much there as with youngest (if that makes,sense, it just feels less sinewy I think.might be the word!). But on the flipside, i know definitely with my eldest that when he was a baby they were there, as I remember feeling them. Though we're talking tiny baby. If they had gone back up at such a young age would they then count as undescended?