Startled baby - moro reflex?????

[woolymindy]

My DC4 is 10 weeks old and last week started to have a couple of episodes like an exagerrated moro reflex, flinging his arms and lets out and panicking. He is otherwise well and ebh and held all the time and sleeps in bed with us (like all the others).

Initially this happened when he was not being help, like in a bouncy chair etc which I can understand as he was on his own and suddenly realised he wasn't being held. But now he is doing it even when being held. Last night about 20 times, even when asleep and this morning all the way to school whilst in carseat (which normally snuggles him enough to avoid this reaction.

He is otherwise well, although does have a heart murmour which was detected at 6 weeks but was not present at birth (which is a bit worrying of course. He is seeing a specialist on Thursay re. the murmour and it is probably unconnected.

I am however, really worried as it seems to be happeneing more and more and even when i am holding him.

I know to a degree this reaction is normal but I wondered is any other Mummies had experienced this with the babies and when it resolved.

[woolymindy]

bumping

[woolymindy]

.........?

[woolymindy]

can anyone help?

[woolymindy]

ok i give in....

[ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave]

It's hard to say without seeing him. I know mine both Moroed (or whatever the verb form is) in their sleep a fair bit at this age, and my feeling would be that it's probably nothing to worry about. Also I've never seen anything about this being a problem, unlike an absence of the Moro reflex or its persistence into older babyhood. But you are his mother, you've had three babies before him, you are seeing what he's actually doing and you are worried. Given your concern I would certainly talk to a HCP of some sort about it.

[blinks]

have you tried swaddling him and seeing if that stops the startled reflex? it would test whether it's a true moro reflex.

[woolymindy]

yes not just in his sleep - it seems pretty random.... saw HV this am who said he looks healthy otherwise and advised seeing a doc - we are seeing paed specialist on thursday and a gp has checked all this pulses etc and they are fine. Just haven't been in this situation before and not ordinarily a panicker about these things. Also it hasn't happened since birth just very recently, maybe a developmental thing?

Anyway thanks so much for your reply. I know it is a normal reaction in babies just feel quite worried about it.

[woolymindy]

swaddling does not help - he does a like a kip in the crook of an arm and even that did not stop it which is why i thought it might not just be a moro .... crikey who would have thought after this many children i would get all flappy about things now?

[winnybella]

probably nothing to worry about- I remember dd doing it and doing it for longer than I thought was expected...but there's something called infantile spasms- I actually hesitate to mention it, as it's an awful disease-but I was convinced dd had it as sometimes she seemed to do Moro reflex thing without actually being startled and had some weird spastic movements on top of it...in any case I am sure it's nothing, but if you are concerned I think I read here on MN that a good thing to do is to film him when he's doing it and then show it to paed.

Is it repetetive? Or more random iyswim?

[winnybella]

Anyhow Moro is supposed to last til 4 or 5 mo- so your ds is well within the normal range.

[woolymindy]

winnybella - yes he is well within the range of course for moro, just didn't do it until last week... and coupled with the heart murmour cropping up when it wasn't present at birth, i am a bit wobbly about it

to be clear, there is nothing startling him - it is very random and he does flail about a lot when he does it and is incredibly distressed - he is otherwise an almost horizontally chilled little chap and not jumpy at all (as a number 4 with a toddler brother) he does get a lot of rough stuff so is not a baby that needs quiet to sleep etc.

Last night it was repetitive and this morning in the car several times in a row... to be honest it just does not feel right to me and everytime i have ignored my instinct with all my children it has been a mistake iykwim

[winnybella]

Right. Well, then film it- have a camera ready fro when he starts doing it in series and then show it to your paed.

FWIW- I was convinced (post baby anxiety) that there was something wrong with DD, as she would strtle not only asllep or actually startled by noise etc- I could be changing her and she would do it twice or three times. She would also bf and have this whole-body spasms. She's fine, though, it was just my paranoia.

I do not recall her doing it in a series of 20 like you mentioned, though.So deffinitely film and show to your paed.

[winnybella]

And if he's distressed by it...not sure, maybe you can film him and then insist with your GP to see paed right away, not in 4 weeks?

[blinks]

i think you're always right to follow your instincts.

[simplysurreal]

I am sorry to say but I read your post and thought potentially Infantile Spasms. I am not an expert at all.

Personally I would video it and then take him to the hospital if/when it happens again and say you think it might be some type of seizure.

[Sooosleepy]

If you are seeing a Peadiatrician on Thursday make sure you get some video footage of the episodes to show him/her then. If it is Infantile Spasms a Paed should be able to recognise this. If they dont mention it then ask if it could be Infantile Spasms.

If you want something done before then, take him to a and e with the video footage and they should get a paediatrician to look at him there.

I dont want to frighten you and hopefully it is nothing but if it is Infantile Spasms it needs to be treated quickly.

[woolymindy]

we do have a paed appointment on thursday 11th - we went private re. the heart murmour but i do know him well enough and he is an excellent clinician.

He did have the cord wrapped several times around his neck but recovered quickly and his apgars were normal. My oldest DD has had a few epileptic fits related to her diabetes and had an abnormal eeg - with the diabetes and coeliacs under control it has not reoccurred for a year or so. She is not medicated for it. That said I know epilepsy can have a familial element to it so I have to think about that i guess - doesn't look like a classic fit though.....

Poor little lamb, on the way to school this morning i could hear him freaking out and he sounded very scared - as a chilled bill ordinarily it was horrible to hear him because he does sound incredibly scared.

And Riven et al, it is ok to mention scary things, I appreciate your honesty, I did ask after all....

[winnybella]

Good luck on Thursday.

[woolymindy]

I am sure it will go well and i will mention it by name. This paed has treated my dd through nhs in diabetes clinic and was the one to tell us about her abnormal eeg - he was very good and he knows i am not a paranoid flappy type so i know he will ;istem - which as we all know is half the battle

thank you everyone for your help

[Sooosleepy]

Woolymindy, I was just wondering how you got on at your appointment? Hope your little one is ok.

[winnybella]

Hope it went ok.

[woolymindy]

The paed was very reassuring - he said his heart murmour was 'a healthy heart being musical' rather than being indicative of something serious - he is happy for my GP,who he knows well and trusts to re-listen in three months and refer him back if there is a problem then.

With regards to the startling thing - he showed me what a moro reflex reaction looked like and we agreed it was not that and therefore he said that what had occurred was something called a myochlonic jerk - and although in later babyhood it can be indicative of something serious said that at this young age he felt it is a harmless developmental thing and if it was still there after 6 months of age or if i became worried to come straight back - he also asked me, as you all advised me to film it if i could.

I cannot tell you what a relief this is - fortunately for us, he knows our family well as i have said so I know he took all our familial stuff into account in his diagnosis.

Thank you all again for your help.