...Stick my finger in my vagina, or my husband's (finger, not vagina) if I can't reach, and stick it in the newborn's mouth before anything else does (nipple, anyone else's finger etc).

The guy who recommended this runs a local health shop and has studied Nutritional Medicine for decades, I usually go to him before the chemist/doctor and he's never let me down so far! He pretty much cured me of insomnia, gastric reflux, helped with depression, lots of things and I really trust him but am wondering if I will look like a complete nut doing this?!!

Through trying to keep an enlightened expression to mask my I heard him saying something about innoculating the baby with the right bacteria, which usually happens naturally in the birth canal, but not with cesaereans, and the result of getting the wrong bacteria first could result in the baby having an flammatory immune system as opposed to an inflammatory one... if I heard right.

Sooooo, would you do this? Have you heard of anyone that has? And what reaction can I expect from the medical staff at being asked to stand back whilst it's done?

TIA

Hmmm. Well, to be fair, it's true that those bacteria are normally ones the baby is exposed to during birth. But you're going to have a catheter in. Monkeying around, down there, isn't a great idea at that point. I don't think the medical personel will respond well to you doing this.

I have heard this before. A vaginal birth introduces your bacteria to the baby and a csection doesn't. I have had three sections and the immune systems of all my dss have been crap. I totally put it down to the sections. However, I am not sure how on earth you would manage this in practice. After a section you will not be in any position (literally and figuratively) to stick a finger down there and into babies mouth. And I think the medical people will try to stop you.

step away from the crazy man!!

i think there is some sort of rationale re your baby colonising himslef with your flora and germs and bacteria or those of your DHs rather than those of teh medics who iwll handle him after the delivery.

i really, really, really think, and i can be a bit of an old hippy, that sticking your finger in your foofoo and then into your baby's mouth is a bit uncecessary

good plain old skin to skin immediatley after delivery would be a good thing

i think the medical staff would look like but it's your baby and your foofoo and your choice

and in all fairness, you won;t be able to reach ! once your baby is delivered, you will be being stitched up and your Dh won;t be allowed to stick his fingers anywhere near your vagina... surely that is an infection risk post birth?

and you will have a catheter, most likely and you will be bleeding and it is really a bit bonkers.

the more i think about it, the more bizarre it is and i can;t imagine anyone could do it

at lulu!pmsl

ive had 3 cs and did not do fanny thing.my dc are fairly normal.

Oh, I should probably say, both my boys were born by CS. DS2 had some exposure to meconium. Both of them have very healthy immune systems, afaik. (Granted, I'm pretty at the whole Nutritional Medicine thing.)

ok i can see his point but OMG!!! i was born by cs section 31 years ago and i have been super healthy all through my childhood and as an adult for that matter. think this one is down to you, do what u think is best. it actually makes sense just sounds abit weird. let us know what you decide. xxx like lula says your baby, your fanjo, you decide xxx

.

There is no way they would let you, or you would be able to. I doubt it would make much difference anyway.

That would be quite interesting given that you won't be able to feel anything from the waist down.

Immunity from b/feeding is a nicer alternative I think!

if you've got Strep B hanging around there, the last thing you'd want to do is shove a finger up your vag and then stick it in dc's mouth

if yuo manage to do it, please post a full report

good point dinny.

You will prob be bleeding loads, you're baby'll get a mouthful of blood. This man sounds a bit bonkers. Sorry

surely, until the abdomen is closed etc. then it is a sterile , draped area, and there has to be no unsterile hands in the area. aseptic? is that the word i am looking for?

Perhaps you could do the finger-thing before the CS when you're not catheterised/bleeding/numb from the waist down, and then make sure you don't touch anything else until the baby's born when you can stick your finger in the baby's mouth? Although you might look odd lying on an operating table with a mucusy finger stuck in the air.

Hmmm. I don't know when the bleeding starts. Presumably not right away? Not sure. You'll have a catheter, probably pants, and a pad.

Lulumama makes a good point, though, they'll have a barrier up (if you want to watch the baby being born, they can put a mirror up, or lower the barrier for the actual birth - but the standard arrangement is, you hang out with the anaesthetitist and your husband while they rummage around), and they won't want you anywhere near the incision while they're busy sewing up. Oh, and you don't want to bother them then, you want them focussed on the sewing, makes for a tidier scar.

Hmm, responses so far in the majority seem to echo what I thought. Sounds reasonable in theory but very hard in practice, physically and in being allowed to anyway...



Maybe we should refer to this in future as "the fanjo/fanny/foo foo thing"...

thanks ladies, any more opinions gratefully received.

How on earth are you meant to do this with an epidural in place?

Also, both my dcs are cs children and they have stunning immune systems it seems but possibly we are dirty enough to have colonised them with our bacteria fairly efficiently early on oh and of course they've been breastfed.

you'd have to make sure it's not the finger they need to stick the pulse / heart rate monitor on.

good plan, daisy..

you;d have to lie there, lotster, with your hand in the air, and shriek ' don;t touch me, i'm sterile' if anyone so much as breathes on you!

i thikn this is the funniest childbirth thread ever. in teh whole world

this chap has probably never seen a c.section

does he have children??

Daisy, I think that is possibly the only way I could do it TBH!

Would a baby normally have his/her mouth open while being in the birth canal?

Lulu, perhaps I could get a hyperbaric chamber like David Duchovny wears in Zoolander

Ha. Well he's obviously never had a CS then, hey?

PMSL at Lulumama

and on that note , i bid you goodnight

<<makes mental note to raise this at next maternity care forum and see who snorts coffee out of their nose first>>

Goodness me! I had a section 3 months ago and there is no way on earth that you would manage to do that!!

And anyway, to get the baby out a lot of doctors put their fingers in the baby's mouth to deliver the head with a section so that is first thing the baby will have in its mouth.

I'm just imagining my DP going down the end of the theatre trolley to try and stick a finger up my fanjo, the theatre staff would have thought he had gone off his rocker and he has to work with them

I have had a CS and I'm afraid this would be practically impossible. If you try to get to your fanjo you will fall off the operating table. I would advise against this. Also, you will be totally numb, so you could be sticking your finger anywhere. I too can have hippyish tendencies but in this instance I would be happy to roll with just the colostrum.

This is SO funny!!

I had a cs last week and just the thought of trying to stick my finger up my fanjo

It still freaks me out a bit that someone had their finger up my bottom to put in a suppository and I couldn't feel a thing

if the doc sometime puts his finger in the babies mouth to deliver it ............. no no no i am just thinking out loud

Probably the best thing you could do is to ask them to perform a 'Natural' section, one of the cons at my local hospital does it this way too. And I think that getting a mouthful of your breast within the first hour will help immensely with the flora/bacteria thing.

Stick your fingers in your vagina before the section and then wipe then all over your nipples. Job done.

I have heard it all now!. You will bleed straight after your c-section, and will have a catheter in. The last thing on you mind will be inserting your finger in there. surely there is enough bacteria on your nipple and skin for the baby to get a good dose when suckling. - Wonder what Ina May has to say on this?

Also, if your DH is anything like my DP he'd sooner stick hot needles in his eyes than be anywhere near my open wound. He would have passed out if he'd had to see what they were up to down there..

Hmm - seems a bit impractical to me - both dp and i had emergency sections and there was so much going on there's no way we would have been able/allowed to do that!

Both our ds's have amazing immunity by the way - they're very rarely ill and I can count on one hand how many times they've been sick (and they're 7 and 4 now!).

I'm with Lulumama - go with skin to skin and don't worry about the rest!

good thinking soupdragon.!!!

i'm with vacaloca. they usually come out with closed mouths. (trying not to think of the alternatives.)

lulu, if you do mention at the next forum, make another note to sit well back and avoid spluttered coffee.

am feeling a bit queasy

but for arguements sake, i had two very natural birth without intervention which meant babies were born in their water sacs (no midwife with a crochet hook) so although the passed through the birth canal they were in no contact with it

There is an interesting explanation for the theory on this web page

www.paleobioticslab.com/csections_breastfeeding.htm

I kind of agree with him *in theory* that childbirth does offer forms of innoculation, and I do think that is part by design that newborns are likely to get exposed to some GI bacteria just by dint of being close to the bum, but I am not aware of any strong evidence that c-section babies are known to be immunologically compromised by not having this bacterial exposure**. C-section babies will get exposed soon enough even if they dont at birth. Bugs are everywhere - cant escape 'em!

I wouldn't attempt trying the finger thing after C-section, although if you felt the need you could always ask for a swab and some help to do it. (not a bum swab though - fanjo at a push I imagine and if there are strep B issues its obv a n-no).

**just found this by googling
august 2008 article in journal of allergy and clinical immunology seems to have found a link betweeen c section and allergy where parents also allergic but looks like early days research.Other studies have not found anything, or only very weak links.

I've heard it all now.

Firstly, I doubt the surgeon would let you stick your hand through a sterile field to stick your finger up your vagina during the op.

Secondly, what the hell is a 'flammatory' immune system supposed to be? Sounds like nonsense dressed up as vaguely plausible pseudo-science to me.

My mind is at rest, wasn't sure if I wasn't enlightened "enough"!

thanks laydees! Will check again tomorrow but am off now.

mummy2t, you made my coffee come down my nose! ROFL

agree with emma there is no such thing as "flammatory" immune system or response.

IIRC (at a basic level) the inflammatory immune response is one of the earliest and most basic responses of the body to infection, but too much of an inflammatory response is the basis for some allergies (asthma, for example) and autoimmune diseases (i.e lupus). Newborns' immune systems need to mature while balancing out a good response to bad things (bugs that cause illness) but not to good bugs like normal gut bacteria, and ensuring they don't mount immune responses to "normal" things such as pollen or eggs or strawberries - (and of course it isn't always successful)

I believe we still don't understand a huge amount about exactly how the immune system learns to differentiate between these things, but it is generally considered that breastmilk, skin to skin contact, exposure to bacteria during birth is part of that learning process.
But as I said before - there are so many c-sections done now that if there was a strong link to any immunological compromise, IMHO we would already know.

disclaimer - i used to work in immunology, but my knowledge is out of date by almost a decade, i have a memory like a sieve, and things move fast in research so i might be talking out of my a*se on any of the aboce points

PS LOL@ceebee - I had never thought of that!

this is sooo funny!

wonder if you should also shove a finger up yer botty in case you would have pooed in labour???

I am not surely it would be physically possible and def not something I would have wanted to even comtemplate after my cs.

Oh and DD born by CS 6 years ago - no immunity problems at all; very healthy.

I'm with Soupdragon on the nipples-smearing.

"I am not aware of any strong evidence that c-section babies are known to be immunologically compromised by not having this bacterial exposure**"

Did you see this?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12801309?dopt=AbstractPlus

"CONCLUSION: There is a significant increase of the risk for developing symptoms of asthma and/or gastroenteritis that motivates admission for hospital care in CS children older than 1 year. It is speculated that a disturbed intestinal colonization pattern in CS children may be a common pathogenic factor."

Haven't read full text so not sure about the quality of the research.

This is the funniest childbirth thread

PMSL at lulu and at OP's "finger, not vagina"

<weeps with laughter>

Agree that this is hilarious...telling that it was a man that suggested this to you!!

Ive had 2 emergency CS's and agree that it would be both nigh on physically possible and the last thing on mind after delivery.

Surely even after a natural delivery without the physical CS issues this would be bottom of a to do list!!!

If you can reach your bits before the birth to inoculate your finger then also v. impressive...i dont recall my arm being long enough to wrap around my whale like proportions!

Anyway if it makes you feel better both my DS's are disgustingly healthy (age 1 and nearly 3). I didnt have immediate skin to skin either...they were both given to DH whilst i stiched up. I breast fed in recovery room and both of them were good feeders so no probs there.

Both my births were actually lovely despite the problems...staff were great, enjoy!

I?......what?.....where?

Only a bloke.......that's all I'm saying.

<hobbles away muttering>

I am open mouthed wih horror and mirth at the idea of this shopkeeper standing in his shop advsing you to get your DH to rummage under the drapes in the middle of a medical procedure in order to stick his finger in your fanjo!

Isn't the problem with the 'rub it on you nipple' plan that you may not know if you have Strep B in your vagina if you are having a CS, and that whereas it may stay infection free inside your fanjo, outside in the air for an hour, it may well be less fresh, as it were. It isn't something I would have contemplated!

Thanks Gaby - I had not seen that - found another similar one as well. It does look like there may be a gathering body of evidence that increases in allergy seem to be a possible trade-off with c-sections - but no doubt whether that is down to vaginal inoculation during birth is going to be an0ther can of worms to prove..... .

Yes me too Blu I've only ever been advised about multivitamins in Holland and Barrett. My nether regions have not cropped up in conversation.

Blu - strep b is hugely common in women and yet it's extremely rare for it to cause any problem for full term healthy babies, when PROM isn't an issue. I'm sure strep b is not going to survive long outside the nice, warm, moist, bug-loving environment of the vagina.

Back again. Glad this thread has cheered a few people up, if horrified others!

Well, not only did he say this over the counter but I'm pretty sure two other people were listening!

Thanks for research links, having read them I am a bit tempted to do the nipple thing, at least preserving my dignity(!) on the off chance it helps.
Ref: Strep B thing, I know it can come and go and often isn't detected, but also read that C/S is not recommended to prevent GBS infection in babies as they don't eliminate the risk of GBS to the baby anyway...
Are there no indicators from your urine samples at check ups - anyone know?

reluctantincubator the other thing that occured to me from link, was that although I breastfeed, my mum never did, so do I have such wonderful bacteria to pass on anyway - I could have kept my own gob closed in delivery and be populated with the crap stuff for all I know! Would certainly explain why I suffer with inflammatory conditions (persistant SPD that never quite goes / Tietze's syndrome (or costochondritis)

I thought that it was the pessure on the baby's lungs as it was squeezed during vb that stopped a lot of future breathing problems like asthma etc?

Srep B is detected by a swab.

Can I just do a bit of very imature giggling.
I did laugh at the first line of the OP, very funny.

haven't got much more to say, but I suppose with vaginal delivery, that happens anyway, don't know how comfortable I'd feel doing that though

"t does look like there may be a gathering body of evidence that increases in allergy seem to be a possible trade-off with c-sections "

I would like to read that gathering body of evidence. I'm assuming it's published in peer reviewed medical/scientific journals.

Seriously....... give me the refs

what a funny thread

Anyway I have always wondered about sections when the baby is delivered and the placenta do they have a bit of a hoover round inside your uterus as well?

Do you start bleeding staright away?

Is it less than a VB?

If you are still attached to catheter do you have a big maternity towel down your pants too?

Flamin hell, I have had 2 cs and there is no way on gawds earth you want him going down yonder, rummaging through prgnancy big bush, opening your legs, dodging the cathether and plunging into the unknown!!!!

Probably some very well thought out hypothesis behind it, but imo, no, no, no!!

Plus not a story you would ever want to pass on to your dc, about how wondeful it was when Daddy did xyz, Jesus, you could scar them for life, NO!

Re the strep B thing - I had a planned section with DD2 after DD1 got a group B strep infection but paed urged me to allow them to give DD2 IV antibiotics anyway to eradicate any chance of her getting the same thing, point being that, no, C-section does not protect against strep b.

By the way, think I 've heard everything now.....

I haven't read the whole thread but

My DD was a section, she has a fairly good immune system, though a bit compromised as she had bronchilitis when she was about 12 weeks old.

I have a shit immune system, pick up every bug and cold going, but I was a natural delivery. Maybe I came out with my mouth closed?

In the deepest recesses of my mind, I have put some of the memories of my section, including the being shaved by a nurse before going down to theatre with a bloody bic razor and having to have nurses check and change sanitary pads.

No way would I have wanted DH to rummage around there!!

if anybodies husband did the whole finger mouth thing on behalf of their wife and newborn, they're a stronger one than my DH who would probably... erm... I dont know, faint? Will have to slip that in conversation next time he suggests another child!

Colacubes - surely with a story like that up my sleeve I would have some leverage to guarantee good behaviour in her teens, or else threaten to tell all in front of first boyfriend??

I'm not that evil, honest.

highlander - I haven't done a proper medline search or anything, its just what cropped up on rough and ready google searches - but there were a couple of meta-analyses. (I didn't intend that statement to sound like a scientific claim and it should have been prefaced with IMO)

Here is one meta-analysis that showed a link with c section and asthma

www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119410122/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

and a link to c-section link to general atopy

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18266879?dopt=AbstractPlus

what do you think?

Really? I haven't read the whole thread, but in response to the OP - No, surely the man in the shop is totally bonkers for suggesting this? What a bizarre idea.
I can sort of see his logic, but at the same time - NO!
Breastfeeding should give your baby all the immunities it needs.
Yuck.

Sometimes I think I have heard/read all there is to hear/read about childbirth.

And then I open a new thread on Mumsnet .

I echo what others say - good in theory (I suppose) but just to darned difficult in practice...

I would personally always recommend that every post partum Mum and babe sees a good cranial osteopath after the birth (not just for forceps/vantouse as is more traditionally belived). Most women are all askew round shoulders, hips and pelvis (and pelvis floor down round knees - obv more so if Vaginal delivery) - and a lot of babies can benefit from the mucus clearing things they can do (esp if c-section where they haven't had the big squeeze through the bith canal).

quack quack.nutritional medicine,an unregulated title anyone can use.

leave medicine to the dr's who studied it properly with rigorous exams etc

this is dumbass advice

ok reality check.
you will be immobilised,
continuously wired
catheter and IV insitu
in a theatre with a big team of obs,scrub nurse,

no chance to get your finger up your vagina.given that it will be adjacent to incision site

staff reaction? stunned

This is the funniest thing I have heard for ages.

Sweetkitty, yes they do swab everything out (vagina included) - bleeding starts straight away - and yes, you do get the brick-sized towel down your pants notwithstanding the catheter. IME blood loss was a lot more with 2 cs than with my vb, but was not quite as prolonged as with the vb.

When I had ds2 (vb) he chucked up huge amounts of vile smelling brown blood about 6 hours after being born - mine, not his. Must've had his mouth open!

wow. and I thought the man in the deli lecturing me about goat's cheese was bad. at least he didn't start recommending peculiar fanjo-related practices.

Scottishmummy - 'properly qualified' doctors have a long and depressing history of injuring and poisoning patients as well as curing them.

There is a paediatrician working at my local hospital who routinely tells mums on the postnatal ward they'll need to supplement with formula if their babies are over 9lbs. Amazing isn't it that your average mum who's done nothing more than worked as a breastfeeding peer supporter knows better than this.

Point being that not all doctors are well informed or always practice safe, evidence based medicine, and not all alternative practitioners are quacks.

doctors have a regulatory body GMD and pts have recourse to complain and ultimate sanction struck off.professional code of ethics and practice

none of this is available to quacks with pseudo-scientific titles - funny how one who eschews professional medicine still wants the status and title eg Nutritional medicine implies medicinal value,body of knowkedge.with absolutely no professional responsibility.an unregulated title,anyone can use.

lets consider "dr" gillian mckeith, ot to give her her full medical title Gillian mckeith.se is another quack with badly formed quasi-scientific ideas

so back to the paediatrician,ell if you believe he flouts good practice and are unhappy you have recourse to the hospital and can complain, this will be actioned.

you have no such recourse with nutritional medicine

doctors are governed by gmc

yes there are good nutritionists out there,but also quacks too.this whole area needs tighter regulation.a move towards regulated protected titles and transparency

current status were anyone can set up with quasi professional titles eg therapist etc is alarming

did you know nutritional therapists can sell treatments for money so they "prescribe" for profit.the impetus is a financial one rather than a treatment one. they "prescribe" for profit

HCP and Dr's cannot prescribe for profit

It is true that anyone can go and buy a health shop and sell vitamins and supplements etc. Which is shocking.

But just quickly in defence of my man who I'm now feling a tad guilty of holding up for ridicule - He has studied and gained various qualifications non-stop for 14 years, always attending seminars on new researchetc., and really devoted himself to nutritional healing (not to mention nipping off to the third world to build orphanages and do charity work whenever he can!!).
He gives free advice wihtout expecting people to buy too, and his shop is overrun with people asking for advice and giving him positive reports whenever I'm in there. So he may be one of the few really good "quacks", but I do believe in him. Maybe the last piece of advice was a bridge too far though!

I wouldn't take advice from just anyone though of course - but he has really proven himself over the years with the advice/help he's given me.

I think the key to my approach is that I try to find natural ways to heal most complaints, but if it's serious then don't mess about, take the doc/hospital advice/medicine.

I feel pharmacutical medicine can sometimes be a cheap, fake imitation of natural medicine anyway, manufactured for profit. Given that the medicine that's considered "alternative" now, used to be the only type you could get,it really has it's place, but not any old tom dick and harry should be allowed to sell or advise on it IMO.
But also we are living longer thanks to modern vaccines and medical advances.
They can live hand in hand.

Are you stil awake? Sorry to waffle

oooh don't get me started on bloody Gillian McKeith. GRRRRR!

Hi

ooh never heard of it but can't see how it would do any harm

May I ask you, How did you get over your insomnia?? I am struggling, was still awake at 5.15 this morning and I should be well tired now as been at work and I'm already panicking that I'm not going to sleep

Hi Gillyan, I just had same this conversation with my sister! (Must run in the family)

I had a period of mild depression and anxiety, which resulted in me having both gastric reflux, and insomnia, where I would fret over the hours of sleep I would get, then also wake up in the early hours and not get back to sleep. I was offered councelling and anti-depressants by the doc, but as I felt it was a temporary condition triggered by certain events, stress and therefore me not eating too well, I accepted the councelling but refused the pills and went down the nutritional route. (Unfortunately seen too many friends and family messed up with willy nilly prescribed antidepressants.)

For the sleep, I tried some simple things like lavender oil on my pillow, taking valerian which is known for its relaxing and calming properties. It can reduce anxiety and encourage sleep without the unpleasant side effects associated with a lot of insomnia medication. Smells like hops though and I found it's better taken for a while as opposed to a quick fix and I'm quite impatient.

My "man" already mentioned, recommended I take magnesium citrate. Apparently a deficiency in magnesium is known to be linked to insomnia, (and also depression for that matter) the western diet is low in magnesium and even if the levels aren't that low, if your calcium levels are higher it works out the same - all about balance, but I won't waffle unless you really need to know more background!

He said that while we sleep a process called the "magnesium exchange" happens, and if you are deficient it can stop and result in you waking - put very, very simply for my benefit I'm sure.

If you don't want to take anything you're not sure of, the best food sources of magnesium are chocolate, nuts, seeds, and deep, dark, leafy greens. If you regularly consume these foods you may not need extra magnesium.

If you decide to take magnesium citrate like I did, (I'm not qualified in any way so ask a health professional for dosage relating to you and any other issues, conditions and medications you have), if taken in the correct dose and early enough in the day magnesium often corrects insomnia. Taking magnesium late in the day is not a problem if it does not adversely affect your sleep.

(An extract about it: Magnesium in the form of magnesium citrate is the most easily absorbed form for the body. Magnesium can also improve moods, relieve insomnia, asthma and migraines and help pre-menstrual problems. It is used by the medical profession to counteract irregular heart beats (arrhythmia).

If you suffer from frequent diarrhoea, take the contraceptive pill, are under a lot of stress or take a lot of strenuous exercise, you are likely to be deficient in this important mineral.)

I found if I took the full dose it actually gave me the runs so he advised me to halve it. Along with a high quality fish oil (I'll put link to all this stuff at the bottom) It really sorted me out quite quickly and whenever I'm feeling low and stressed I return to taking fish oil which helps me loads. (The brain is mostly fat and out of that fat almost 60% is omega 3 fats. Omega 3 is linked to helping depression, brain function and stress).
I haven't had to go back to the magnesium as I started taking a really good multivitamin and a better diet since then.

I only use the best quality, and most recommended brands which can cost a pretty penny, but they are worth it IMO, (plus once you've read the brand websites about the products there's loads of places online to buy the same brand but cheaper!)

Magnesium citrate:
Solgar-explanation
Actual tablets

Omega 3 Fish Oil
Higher Nature
(taken from the body of the fish, not just the liver like cod liver oils, containing more DHA, and I take throughout pregnancy too)

An interesting article on how different fats we eat affect our brain (ADD related stuff in there too which some may find interesting):
here

BIIIIIIIIG Waffle, but I spose it's my thread to hijack

hahahahahahaha

I know many men are driven to talk complete bollocks but this has to be one of the most hilarious examples ever.

This thread made me laugh so much !!!!

lotser Thank you so much for all that info - I was put on sleeping pills for a while but got off them quick as docs said they wouldn't give me any more anyway.

I think I'll go to good health shop we have here and ask about magnesium supplement and I'll get some lavander oil defo!

thanks so much I will have a look at those links too.

I suffered from depression a few years ago for years and was on anti - depresants and I'm quite confident that I'd know if I was depressed again - I think it's probably more stressing than anything - although I spent most of last week in tears but I tyhink that was just hormones as I'm PG again.

Anyhow, thanks again and good luck with the finger in vagina thing!! He he, it does make sense but I see how you're wondering what the staff would think - however sod them you'll never see them again!

No problem, good luck.

Pregnancy is a hard time for it IME (especially with a two year old), have had a few bad weeks recently, hence I'm back on the fish oil, I really feel the difference.
Used to get a fear when I was down it would start the slide back in to it, but now I put in perspective that if there's a reason, (PG, stress, problems etc) then low mood is appropriate as it would be for anyone. Helps to get back on my feet quicker.

I think the likelihood of me administering "the finger" are ebbing away
However no-one will know if my nips are carrying a secret weapon or not... hee hee.

Is "flammatory" a real word? Is there an opposite to "inflammatory"?!!!!

Well apparently Rhematoid Arthritis is a "flammatory" disease, where the body attacks itself.

Since reading up to work out what he was on about, I think he's referring to the body's immune response system.

Still 'ed me though!

Can you imagine this on the birth video!!!

I think your friend the health food shop owner is a wonderful example of a little learning being a dangerous thing.

Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disease that causes chronic inflammation of the joints and sometimes tissues around them. Autoimmune diseases are illnesses where the body's immune system mistakenly attacks its own tissue.

His new word 'flammatory' is not in my English dictionary (Chambers), my medical dictionary or my copy of the BNF. A quick google shows it does crop up on the internet, mainly when people have been writing in another language translated into English or where people who are not doctors clearly don't have a very good grasp of language.

Hi Edam, was just coming back to clear up my error - about flammatory and inflamatory being the same thing, or just inflammatory being a real word...
Been talking to my medical sis.

Just to clear up, I can't be sure he actually said this at all, I was quite at the time and trying to absorb the info whilst keeping poker faced!
So before it goes off on too much of a tangent making him look silly, I'm pretty sure I just reported it wrongly, and what he was saying was that by populating a baby's system with the right stuff it might reduce the tendency towards inflammatory problems. I think!

I'm sure evolution has finely tuned our natural birth method for a reason, so the bacteria we are exposed to in a normal birth is right for us, as is breast milk a perfectly balanced and appropriate meal etc. But I don't have the knowledge or time to find out or properly understand why this would or wouldn't be a good idea so I'm keeping my finger to myself.

RA is an inflammatory arthritis.

Flammatory is not a word nor a medical concept.

I am suing mumsnet for a new laptop after this thread just made me snort my tea all over it amd me!!!!!!!!!!!!

Emma think we cross posted - I know now!

Sorry Inzidoodle, hope you didn't burn yourself!

its OK no burns......cant stop chuckling though. FWIW my DD is fine after CS and has a very strong immune system.

This is the funniest thread I have ever read. I have never had a CS (thank God) so can't make any comments on whether this is possible, but just thinking about it has made me laugh.
My DS terrible immune system- but natural (in a kind of induced rather quickly way) birth.

"walk away from the silly man"? I'd say RUN!

I can see why he could be saying it but mother nature and life-saving CS should be sufficient plus as someone else said there will be a catherter (sp?!) there so you wont be able to which shows how much he knows!

Thanks for sharing it with us though!