OK so DS was born almost 4 years ago and I'm only just asking this....why was he blue, when born?

[MamaVonG]

v v quick labour
pushed for 5 minutes literally

he sort of FLOPPED out, didn't move or make a sound, was blue
whisked over to the resuscitator thing and was fine, and has been since

but it bothers me that he was blue

I know its silly, ubt I just want to know. Was too relieved at the time to ask

[LynetteScavo]

Good question.

DS1 was blue, but my other two weren't.

[MamaVonG]

do you know why? did he breathe/cry/MOVE?

[Shitemum]

They can be a funny colour when they're born - have you read about the amazing stuff that is going on inside their hearts and circulatory system in the first few minutes of life? It's just incredible.

[MaureenMLove]

Dunno! Ask me again tomorrow, I'll know then!

[MamaVonG]

no shitemum i ahven't.

mo, i will ask you tomorrow

[0SlightlyMadShrek]

When you are in utero you don't have red blood and blue blood - it is mixed, so babies tend to appear less pink (e.g. blue/grey) than they will be after a few minutes. It is not uncommon.

The first breaths change the blood flow in the heart so the red and blue become seperate, and the red flows just under the surface making hte skin pink. Many babies will be blue whilst this change in circulation takes place, but most are normally largely pink when the apgar scores are taken at 1 & 5mins, although the extremities can still be blue for a bit.

If baby doesn't breath straight away, or there is too much gunk in the lungs it can stop the changes in teh heart happening straight away and they may be given extra oxygen to give the blood a bit extra whilst the heart & lungs sort themselves out, adapt from being bathed in fluid to bathed in air and adapt from getting oxygen from placenta to getting oxygen from the air.

Its is miles more compliated than that, but that sthe basics

[MamaVonG]

thank you very much sms, that really helps my peace of mind

[Shitemum]

{relieved that slightlymad has saved me from going to look it up and type it all out}

not only that, but some part of the heart that was open before closes permanently to let the blood flow in the right direction...or summat

[0SlightlyMadShrek]

I said that "change in the blood flow in the heart"

But if you are being pedantic it isn't actually in the heart, it is outside the heart and is something called the Ductus Arteriosus and connects the Aorta and pulmonary artery which closes after birth.

Basically in teh uterus the blood doesn't actually go to the lungs to collect oxgen and after birth the first breath triggers the heart to re-wire (or re-plumb) itself and start collecting oxygen from the lungs. Doesn't always/usually happen instantly though.

[Nemoandthefishes]

weird really as ds was blue although quick labour he got into distress just before being born. Both girls were very grey and 'watery' looking

[Shitemum]

ok ok it was the bit about the artery closing that i sort of remembered..isn't it all really amazing tho?

[0SlightlyMadShrek]

I know, I always thought it was in the heart.

Until DTD2 was booked in for a surgical closure of her Duct when she was 2weeks old and we got all the info.

[0SlightlyMadShrek]

And it is v v close to the heart, just as the aorta and pulmonary arteries come out of the heart.

[sparklygothkat]

wow didn't know all that SMS!! Dd1 was blue when she was born but had an apger score of 8 and 9. dd2 was not breathing at birth and had an apger score of 5 and 6.

[Shitemum]

wow, i thought it all had to happen in the first few minutes after birth, or else big trouble. Was your DtD2's blood getting all mixed up?

[0SlightlyMadShrek]

Sorry highjacking thread a bit here, but here is a bit more.

The duct shuts down within minutes but it doesn't actually fuse closed for the first couple of weeks.

DTDS were prem (27wkers), and prems are prone to PDA (persistent ductous arteriosus) as they often don't breath well enough at birh to cause the changes.

She was doing fine with only a slight murmur which is normal as it goes thru the process of closing. When DTD2 was about 10 days she developed a stronger murmur and started to have repiratory probs. DRs think she got a infection and she 'blew open' her duct. She was back on life support for a few days, but bounced back with the appropriate meds.

She was right was rain within a few days and no lasting effects (apart from the 10's of grey hairs on me!!!)

[0SlightlyMadShrek]

Oh and one of 2 things can happen, depending which way the blood flows across the duct

1. blood can get mixed up and the whole body and brain can suffer as it doens't get enough oxygen

1. Too much blood can go to the lungs, which get stiff and filled with fluid and cause difficulty breathing. This is relatively easy to manage by allowing hte ventilator to do the work and reducing blood volume with diuretics and stuff.

DTD2 was type 2 which is the 'better' type to be.

[0SlightlyMadShrek]

MamaG don't be scared by this, this most certainly doesn't apply to your DS

[Tangle]

Is it that complicated?

My understanding was that the colour of your blood is directly dependent on the level of oxygen within it. So the closer the blood is "downstream" of the oxygenation point (placenta in utero, lungs once breathing is established) the blood is, the redder it will be.

So if a baby is a bit blue at birth it's because it's got slightly short of oxygen during the birth process (presumably because it's stopped getting quite enough oxygen from the placenta before the lungs have kicked in and the duct has shut down). As long as the baby pinks up within a few minutes it's not usually a cause for concern as it shows the baby is now getting sufficient oxygen.

Glad your DD was OK, SMS , must have been very scary at the time.

[0SlightlyMadShrek]

Yup it is that complicated....

I know the science bit because I am a biologist
I know the medical bit cos of DTD's experience & because I am a scientist.
I know the tension bit cos of a parent .

YOu are right about colour of blooding being about how much oxygen being in it, but it is based on a % oxygenated, so when your blood is mixed (as discussed above) the % oxygenated is lower (because a % has little oxygen) so blood is bluer.

The %O2 doesn't have to be very low before going blue. I think you would be distinctly blue at just 90%O2, especially a baby with thin skin, but I am trying to recall back nearly 7yrs so could be wrong on that one.

[bagpuss]

SMS, this is interesting actually. I've never really thought about the blueness before. When ds1 was born 7 years ago he was blue and I can remember being concerned at the time but was told that it was totally normal. It transpired that his arterial duct was open for 4 weeks and went undetected until he was diagnosed with Transposition of the Great Arteries. When dd was born she was checked and given SATS readings which were both pre and post ductal - never really understood it fully in relation to a healthy baby but I do now .

[maxbear]

Most babies are blue when born, it is normal to have slightly less oxygen in the bloodstream towards the end of labour, this is what gives them incentive to take a deep breath when they come out. Although most babies pink up quickly, some of those that are born after quick labours stay blue in the face for the first day or so. I'm not sure why.

[whomovedmychocolate]

For the less scientific among us (ie me) is it not possible you gave birth to a smurf?

[Tangle]

Sorry if I was unclear - I fully believe that the changes that happen just after birth are that complicated, and that if they don't happen correctly the baby will stay bluer than it should.

But I don't see how the ductus arteriosus can have any impact on the colour of the baby at birth.

Maxbear - interesting that the length of labour seems to have an impact.

WMMC - LOL

[SlightlyMadShrek]

slightly more detaile summary

{the language in the 3rd & 4th paragraphs which are the important ones is a bit easier so skip the first couple of paragraphs if necessary}