OP I feel exactly the same. The formula carton's 'message' I find really upsetting. Problem is that whether it is me being upset for me or baby doesn't actually make me feel better.

Yes yes yes nicewarmslippers, I'm totally with you on this. I carried my little girl in a wrap for the first 12 weeks and feel very strongly about the odd (to me) idea in the west about putting your baby in a cot alone and expecting it to be settled and contented, only being held when fed or for cuddles that the parent enjoys. I think carrying my LO actually helped me get as far as 8 weeks of breast feeding, right from the first mins after birth we never got off to a good start as she was taken from me at birth and I didn't get skin to skin until 1.5 hours later and even then it wasn't for long as I kept dropping to sleep and the nurses wouldn't let me hold her in my arms in the bed. Then a breast feeding nurse made me express and she then seringe fed my little girl before I'd had chance to try the breast with her. (can't you tell I still have such a lot of bitterness about the whole birth experience!) Now I cannot say for certain that this caused my problems with breast feeding however I am certain it did not help. Our society sucks and expects so much of women in terms of balanceing babies, older children, work, the house, and then things like looking after other relatives.

True ture nicewarmslippers, thanks for that, I totally agree. Here in the west we have to also focus on other things like looking after other children(if we have any) and houseworks, and going back to work. They probably have little intererrence from health professionals about the weight of the baby and that its loosing weight so you must use formula. They have no choice but to bf.

Dotty yes i totally agree, it sounds like a good idea of yours. I think now that i have accepted it, and see my little girl as thriving doing really well, it seems like a distant memory, however at the time it was really horrible and felt so guilty.

I spent 5 years living in very rural africa where 100% breast feed or their babies die (well a very few may be fed by a relative-but ususally only as a short term measure). But it is a MYTH that it is just easy and natural to them. The difference is that women there know it is difficult to get breast feeding established and know it needs a huge ammount of effort and support. Women essentially lie down wrapped up with their babies for 6 to 8 weeks (slowly doing more) but at first are washed by female relatives in their bed! Now that may be oging a bit far but they really just lie and work on resting and getting breast feeding established. They don't talk to visitors who come to see the baby (even very good friends I'd visit wouldn't talk, they are expected to focus on the baby and their mum/sister etc would speak for them). When I discuss with friends there that in the UK we are told that 'if it hurts you are doing it wrong' they laugh. They say 'of course it hurts at first, it can hurt so much you cry'. JUst beaucase somthing is 'natural' doesn't make it easy (anyone given birth recently.......)

Here here Tiktock, reading your posts has made me realise your right it isn't guilt I feel about not exclusively breastfeeding it's disappointment, anger and sometimes embarressment (about now bottle feeding).

And your right about the quality of midwifery care, in the first few days is so important. In the current NHS system it's pot luck as to which midwives you see and whether they are able to provide the care you and your baby need, as all Mums and all babes are different and need an individual approach. I was fairly lucky and felt all the midwives I saw in hosp and at home (and there were many in those first 14 days) were all fairly good and tried so hard to help me. It's the flamming system that stinks not allowing midwives to actually provide the level of care needed and not arming them with more skills re. breast feeding, for instants in situations like these a Mum needs one on one care from ONE midwive not 14 and that care needs to be given in the home not in clinics or on wards. In my area there are two NHS feeding advisors one at each hospital, these professionals were very skilled and were helpful however I think there needs to be heaps more of them and they need to be visiting the home not expecting mothers to visit them with days old babies with the problems of breast feedsing.

I have pondered myself about setting up a local support group for Mums who couldn't breast feed and are now bottle feeding either EBM or formula, as in my area there are only breast feeding groups which are and were helpful while I was trying my hardest to overcome the problems of breast feeding but once I'd gradually made the switch to bottles it feels I can't access those groups because I'm now not breast feeding but I kinda crave support about the issue still.......hence why I still read/post the feeding talk boards on here.

Can I also add that breastfeeding where I live is presented by midwives and other mothers as the norm and one woman in our NHS antenatal class became quite defensive in the bf class as no-one had mentioned bottle feeding at all.

Although I think this is the right approach and I was totally convinced that I wanted to bf my DD it only adds to the guilt when it doesn't work out.

"I'm guessing you weren't brought up surrounded by bfing mothers, that you didn't do imaginary play by holding your doll to the breast etc. I'm guessing that latching your baby onto your breast was the first latched (or not) baby you had ever seen. I'm guessing that at that time, you probably didn't even know another currently bf mum."

My mother bf me and my two siblings and I am the second oldest of 14 cousins so have seen plenty of bf and been on the receiving end myself. Can't remember about the playing tbh.

"I'm guessing your advice was given by people with limited knoweldge and bf experience, and given under stressful conditions and that you were limited in access to these advisors."

I had a 2 hour NCT antenatal class before giving birth which went through positioning, latching on potential problems as well as an NHS class which covered similar ground. I was offered support from a bf counsellor in hospital, then from the midwife at home, I called NHS direct and a breastfeeding counsellor for advice and was constantly reminded of a bf cafe near my home.

"I'm guessing too, that you had other things to think about and be responsible for other than simply feeding your baby. That the house still had to run, even at a minimum and that your role in this was pretty major."

I think this is true of any new mother, but I will say that my DH wasn't with me much in hospital as he felt it would be more helpful to me to come home to a well organised house than to be sitting in a hospital ward. My mother did all our laundry for the first 2 weeks and would have helped out in any way I asked.

Breastfeeding (obviously only for some people) is just difficult. I think, as others have said, that we take for granted that something natural will come naturally. I was told by a midwife that she was surprised due to the amount of blood I had lost that my milk had come in at all. I wasn't told this before and my milk supply initially was fine so it wasn't that I wasn't fully equipped iyswim.

I think it is possible to feel guilt and anger ( and a whole lot more) about failing to breastfeed.

I had tons of help, some good some bad, I had lots of physical problems (tongue tie, thrush, and really, really sensitive nipples), I did lots of research about b'feeding, the majority of my friends b'fed their babies, but I still failed.

I feel anger because some of the help (especially early on) was very damaging, and hurtful, and I feel guilt because I know that b'feeding is best, it was something I was desperate to do, but I couldn't do it, and I will always feel as though maybe I didn't try hard enough (and yes sometimes people say things that make me feel guilty, because they had problems but they tried harder etc).

There are things I feel guilty for despite having no control over them (having a miscarriage for example), it is such a complicated thing - or maybe it comes from a Catholic upbringing!

I think you just have to focus on all the fantastic things you can do for your baby. I also want to become as informed as possible about formula and b'feeding and how things can be improved, because I would like to think that if my dd's ever have children I will be able to support them to b'feed even if it was something I struggled with.

It's ok. DS2 went from 10lb 5oz to 9lb 6oz. By day 5 he had only put on 1oz and she said it wasn't good enough.

sorry wasn't being a pedant just wasn't sure how the other way would work
Yes, I completely agree - the obsession with weighing and measuring too (I assume that was the 'problem') can't help. Of course if a baby is severely dehydrated or losing lots of weight then formula may be necessary, but it shouldn't have got to that in the first place and that is down to the HCPs!
Yes, I would definitely say ask not to see her again.