Tiktok or anybody - any tips to encourage tongue thrusting? mears needs support!

[mears]

Sis had elective CS at 38 weeks - twins with first one breech - on Monday morning.

I have been with her supporting breastfeeding.

Babies were skin to skin immediately. Lots of faffing about when trying to feed. Both eventaully fed from the right breast. Looked well attached. Feed was comfortable.

Little girl (6lb 4oz) is better than her brother (6lb 13oz).

Despite getting off to a good start they were reluctant to feed again. We had a few good feeds but after a struggle to get them going. They both got expressed colostrum.

Both nipples have become so painful sis could bear feeding them and they were cupfed last night. She couldn't even express colostrum. I have supported her in this decision and the babes are being cupfed formula today and she is expressing.

Milk is not through as yet but I am hoping it will arrive tonight or tomorrow.
I think the babies need to bring their tongues out more when latching on. They don't have tongue ties.

They are using their tongues when cup feeding but I wondered if we should encourage them to extend their tongues more by finger stroking their tongues or any other techniques?

She has done brilliantly well as far as CS recovery goes but the feeding has been a nightmare for her so far. Any tips gratefully received. She plans to persevere by the way.

[mybestfriendiscalledstig]

Bumping for you - & many congratulations to your sister

[tiktok]

mears - this is an area outside my expertise, sorry. I mean, I have read about these techniques and tips, but my forte, such as it is, is with supporting the more run of the mill stuff...I do wonder if this actually is run of the mill, though, rather than a 'tongue situation'.

These little twinnies are good weights, and term, and if they were singletons we'd just accept they need a lot of skin to skin, biological nurturing positions, and patience...and trust that this would get it together.

I'd be a bit worried about this soreness - what's gone on there? She's not trying to do anything amazingly clever like feeding them both at once, is she?

Having said that, soreness is a bugger and can just happen, even when things look ok from the outside. I do find skin to skin and BN can be a terrific help, though.

[mears]

No she isn't feeding them together - she quickly realised that doing that was an impossibility till she got experienced.

They both were skin to skin - tried letting them find the breast themselves but they just got into a tizz.

Not sure what will be the best approach tomorrow. Sis trying to attach them in the 'traditional' manner or encouraging them to attach themselves.

She hasn't been able to lie very straight or on her side since the CS.

What position would you suggest?

[MarsLady]

Like Tiktok I was going to suggest Biological Nurturing and lots and lots of skin to skin.

Has she tried leaning back with the babies (individually at first) lying in a straight line down her body?

It will take time initially. My only other suggestion (but I appreciate that she's in hospital still) is Cranial Osteopathy.

Skin to skin will be the key. Has she been able to change position at all? Lying on her side would be very good if she can do it now. And has she tried the rugby hold with them?

Glad to hear that she's going to persevere. It will come!

[tiktok]

Agree with Mars. Have also seen twins feeding together on one of those V cushions, rugby ball style but with mum leaning forward a bit - this could be done singly.

Hope today shows progress for her.

[mears]

Have texted her this morning and she been doing skin to skin with the girl. I am hoping that they will self attach. WE had tried that after her CS but with drips, monitors in the way and effects of spinal it was all very awkward. Babies just didn't click.

I think part of the probelm is that they really should have been born in a couple of weeks - they don't realsie what they are meant to be up to.

[mears]

Sorry mars - yes we did do rugby hold. We have tried every position under the sun!

[mears]

Sorry mars - yes we did do rugby hold. We have tried every position under the sun!

[mears]

Sorry mars - yes we did do rugby hold. We have tried every position under the sun!

[mears]

oops

[tiktok]

mears, you could be right about the timing. 37 weekers, for instance, are notorious for not quite co-ordinating sucking and swallowing, and I have also seen this in babies who are not quite 'cooked' but who are (like these twins) technically term and a good weight.

The tubes and so on will not help at all.

Staying laid back, intervening as little as possible, just enough to keep things trucking along, is so important, especially with twins as the emotional heart and head bashing with 2 babies is immense.

[tiktok]

I'd worry , too, about 'doing every position under the sun' - time to back off and just concentrate on one or two positions and giving them a chance to work??

[mears]

Thanks, I agree Will report back later.

[tortoiseSHELL]

I'm no expert at all, but I did get quite sore, particularly with dd, and as I know you know, lansinoh is a lifesaver.

Also, has your sis tried feeding them in the bath? I remember my mw saying that the water can help the babies to 'remember' how to feed - like 'rebirthing' - might be worth trying especially if you're around to help with the other twin. I am always full of admiration for anyone who has twins, as I can't IMAGINE having 2 babies - one is hard enough!

Hope the feeding perks up today mears! Your sister is so lucky having you around!

[tortoiseSHELL]

I've just remembered that ds1 was a hopeless sucker to start with - he was born 12 days late, slight distress during labour. He wouldn't latch on for about 6 hours, then he did latch on, but absolutely wouldn't suck - his latch was there, but he just wouldn't then take any milk. I seem to recall (long time ago now - he's 6!) that I got him to suck by letting him suck my little finger, then transferring him to the breast, and also making sure he was REALLY wide awake before a feed. Having said that, he was always a useless feeder, and ended up being supplemented by formula 3 times a day from 10 days old, but I did manage to b/feed him to 13 months which I felt very proud of given his rocky start, and also needed quite a lot of discipline to avoid the b/feeding tailing off.

[tiktok]

Bath can be an excellent move, and it can be relaxing for both mum and babies.

[mears]

Attempted to breastfeed DD this afternoon. Sis not keen to try BN as she wanted to avoid chance of babies 'bobbing around' and brushing nipples. Did lots of skin-to-skin though. DD opened really wide with tongue out so massive progress. Sucked a few really good times - sis not keen to let her stay on too long though.

Still waiting for milk to come in. Started double pumping and she has found pain subsiding.

Hopefully her confidence will build with each attempt at feeding. Will need to find breast feeding support in Bristol when she goes home.

[tortoiseSHELL]

Where in Bristol is she mears? There are one or two mw clinics I know of here, but the HVs who I have experience of are a bit nutty....

[tortoiseSHELL]

Is she in a Bristol hospital? Or away from Bristol atm? In which case, will she be under mw care in Bristol? I know a few of the mws here, and they are VERY variable in the help/advice they give - my mw was fantastic, but I know with ds2, over the wkend when my mw was off, the mw who came and discovered he'd lost 50g or so gave me MAD advice - she said to drop a feed, and to give a complete formula feed in the evening, so as to increase my milk supply...I seem to remember I burst into tears, came on MN, posted a plea to tiktok, and then ignored her - my mw phoned me FIRST THING the following morning and said on NO ACCOUNT to do this. So there are all ends of the scale here - I wonder which mws she is with?

[tortoiseSHELL]

[mears]

She is up in Scotland with my parents at the moment and delivered in my unit. Will come home to mum's tomorrow.PLanning to go home to Bristol on Sunday.

[tortoiseSHELL]

Good luck to her with the journey! I presume then she'll be under the care of her CMW?

[MarsLady]

How's she going? You're a brilliant support!

[tiktok]

I bet all will be well in a few days, mears - hope so

[mears]

Nipples are much improved. Babies starting to the hang of latching on. Milk has finally arrived this morning. Now working on reducing formula top-ups - needs increase in confidence.