mears calling tiktok - and anyone else with same problem

[mears]

My poor midwife friend who had such a lovely waterbirth 4 weeks ago is in a pickle over feeding. She breastfed first DS with no problems. Stopped about 7 months when she was back at work. Anyway, she phoned this morning to say that she has had to put him onto the bottle because she is just so tired and can't cope. He is swamped with milk at each feed - not so bad during the day but horrendous at night. Her DH is not very supportive of breastfeeding and had already said he could help more if she gave him a bottle. She ended up giving formula overnight but she was up doing the feed!

Probel is DS2 is very windy, gulps and chokes on milk and just keeps going on and off. He took 3oz formula and selled very quickly. Her DH said that proved her milk was not good enough. She knows that is rubbish but she is tired and hormonal. It wasn't till I pointed out that he should have given DS the bottle that she realised he still didn't help her.

She is feeling a bit better today and really doesn't want to stop breastfeeding but can't go on with the wind issue. She has used homeopathic remedies with no effect. Got Infacol yesterday but caved in during the night.

I have reassured her that just because she has given formula. it does not mean that she has to stop feeding. I think she has an oversupply problem at the moment that can be solved.

Tiktok - you have given advice before about restricting feeds to one breast for at least 6 hours to help combat overproduction. That do you advise about subsequent engorgement? Because she missed 2 feeds, she needed to express and got 8 oz. I have advised her to try feeding from one breast only over a couple of feeds and to express for comfort from the other if necessary. Is that advisable or should you live with the fullness?

She is thinking of giving baby EBM but is concerned he might not settle for very long if it is predominantly foremilk. I have told her not to get obsessed with fore and hind milk, but that if it makes her feel better, give formula again tonight (by Dad) so that she can sleep. That in itself may help reduce production.

Once she feels less sleep deprived she may think more clearly and re-establish breastfeeding. She has tried various positions, feeding uphill, letting first woosh of milk drain into a towel.

What do you think?

[bundle]

mears i too had loads of milk esp with dd1, has she tried expressing immediately before feeding?

[mears]

She didn't fancy that hassle in the middle of the night. It too tired to think of doing it IYKWIM?

[bundle]

i remember only too well, but my overproduction problems only got sorted once I started expressing. i'd be worried about engorgement if only feeding from one side(i had mastitis 3 times with dd1 because of blocked ducts)but bow to tiktok's superior knowledge on this

[Clayhead]

Someone on here suggested using the heel of the hand against the non-feeding boob to suppress, IYSWIM,. I found that gradually made a difference, especially combined with the towel bit.

For me, both times, it was a case of getting the first few weeks over and done with and things settled down considerably.

HTH

[bundle]

clayhead, i did that too, once production had settled a little, to avoid embarrassing wet patches when out.

[pixiefish]

Muslin Squares were a godsend for me. Take 3 or 4 to bed and then when I fed dd I'd tuck 2 ynder the other breast and leak/flow into the muslins. She needs to get rid of some of the first fast flowing milk really- express with a pump or hand express into a towel if she can't be bothered to try and sort wind out.Her dh needs a kick up the backside as well

[Avalon]

I had the same problem with dd1. It just settled after a while - awful while you've got it.

Has she tried expressing using a mains powered machine? - I couldn't do the hand expressing or whatever the other option is.

[Twiglett]

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[californiagirl]

Here's Kellymom on oversupply which has a bunch of suggestions and links to more stuff on oversupply and gassy babies.

[bloss]

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[zebra]

Maybe a daft thought but what about taking some Sudafed/pseudoephdrine... it's safe for a breastfeeding mother/infant but may slightly reduce supply.

I'm sure Bloss is right about the expressing off approach being better. Plus she could donate to a milk bank or freeze the EBM to mix into solids later or just in place of formula if she shifts to bottle later.

[mears]

Thanks - some very useful tips here. That is interesting Bloss, will tell her about that study.

I am not sure how she will get on because I think this is more a husband problem that a breastfeeding one IYKWIM? He has been saying all along that he could do more to help if she was bottle feeding. He has already told her that her milk obviously is not godd enough and they are constantly arguing. That does not lend itself to a settled baby on the breast when she is getting so uptight. Her DH would probably criticise any measures she took such as expressing and I think that will put her off. Unfortunately when she stopped B/F first time round she had a short spell of depression. Her DH is encouraging her to stop now so that she can avoid that happening later because she B/F too long last time.
I could choke the man.

[zebra]

That's one of the arguments for bottlefeeding I don't get -- that the man will "help more". One of the best ways a man can help is by supporting his partner to do this terrific thing for the baby... My husband often says "You're wonderful!" when he sees me feeding the baby. It's really nice.

[mears]

Just phoned but someone is in visiting at the moment. HV is coming later so she will phone me back after lunch. I wonder what the HV advice will be.....

[Bagpuss30]

mears, what about using breast shells to get rid of the excess. A bit easier than pumping at night. It worked for me when my supply went mad at about 16 weeks and it soon settled down once I'd used them.

[mears]

Well I am delighted to report that HV was very supportive on Friday. Agreed with advice of feeding fron one breast over a longer period.
She also gave a bottle feed of EBM and found it had the same result as formula which boosted her confidence. She also has had a talk with her DH and he is going to try and help more to let her sleep. He did late evening feed with EBM and she B/F in the middle of the night. Meant she had slept for a few hours. She was going to try expressing before feed to try and stem forceful letdown (HV agreed ).
Got a call today (answering machine)to say that baby has been exclusively breastfed today and is a lot more settled. She sounded so pleased with herself.

[mears]

Thanks bagpuss30 also. Advised shells to catch milk when feeding but not for long spells as that can actually cause problems too by encouraging excess milk production!

[toddlerbob]

Any husband who claims they will help more if a baby is bottlefed should be forced to go to the shops alone and buy bottles and formula(that confusion alone should put most of them off), then they should try to sterilise everything using just the instructions they can find on the stuff they bought (only die hards would get to this point). Mum meanwhile should sit with a glass of water and the TV on calmly breastfeeding infant whilst dad gets more and more confused and harassed. She should then go for a lie down while dad burps and changes the now satisfied infant.

[Ghosty]

I like the way you think toddlerbob ...
Mears ... I am glad your friend is feeling better about this and I hope she finds things a bit easier from now on.
I am so glad that my husband has been supportive of my breastfeeding ... I think if you have supportive husband you are half way there aren't you?

[yurtgirl]

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[JulieF]

It is very hard to breastfeed without the support of your dh, especially when you hit major problems and you are accused of starving your baby.

However it is possible if you have the support of lots of other peopleas I had. I hope your friend manages to get through her problems Mears. If anyone can help her, you can.

[tiktok]

Mears, looks like there are some good ideas here. I know many women who have had excellent results with the 'feed one sided only for several hours' technique, and I would always suggest this (the express before let down is prob ok but it is gonna be very awkward and cumbersome...). Resultant engorgement on the unused side is a nuisance, but it does not persist...mums need to only express to comfort, not to take a lot off.

In any case, just stopping breastfeeding is not a good thing to do for someone with an excess supply issue.

Glad this mum seems to be doing better now.

[mears]

Thought i would update this thread. I visited my friend today and she has returned to exclusive breastfeeding with a settled baby (at the moment).

Since I posted last she was back to giving formula. Her SIL took the baby and his brother overnight so that she could sleep and he slept for 5 hours! That in itself made her feel WORSE and made her question her ability to breastfeed again. SIL had one bottle of EBM and one of formula. I did manage to assure her though that it was not surprising that her baby settled. Her SIL would have been delighted to have a new baby to care for and would look forward to the night feed. Not like a stressed out mum who is willing baby to sleep. He would have settled more easily because of the air of calm!

She was in such a dilemma last week. Even though she is a midwife she was questioning her ability to produce milk that was good for her baby DS. He kept screaming and fighting at the breast - she was sure there was something wrong with her milk. She decided to put him on formula for 24 hours to see what would happen. Although he settled and slept for 4 hours the first time she gave it, he then went on to feed 2-3 hourly and was very windy and unsettled. She phoned me to see what i thought as she really did not know what to do. I decided to be honest and tell her to put him back on the breast. I always worry that I will pressurise women into breastfeeding when I go on about the benefits, however I feel in this case this is what she needed to hear. I reassuired her that her breastmilk was better than any formula and that he was better being breastfed. She decided to give it another go and he seems to be a changed baby. Her DH is helping out a lot more amd her DS seems to be feeding much better. She did not want to bottle feed since she successfully breastfed last time. Her confidence took a real battering because this baby is not a happy wee soul like his brother. Hopefully things will continue to improve. I have given her my friends new book on B/F which will hopefully remind her why she is breastfeeding in the first place. I told her about all the advice posted here too and she was really touched. Thanks.

[mears]

Here is my other friend's site and if you have a look at the pictures in her breastfeeding book you will see a very dishevelled me!!

breastfeedingbook

[mears]

p.s. friend thought picture looks nothing like me